Whether to move the email list to Yahoo/Google?

MichaelBluejay · 2009-03-03 13:31:24

Some members of the email list suggested we move the mailing list to Yahoo Groups or Google Groups. Let's discuss here whether we should do this.

There are really two questions before us:

(1) Should we move the list software to one of these services (Yahoo/Google)?
(2) If so, should we use Yahoo Groups or Google Groups?

So what are the pros & cons? Both platforms seem to support the main things we need, e.g.:

- Letter members choose whether they want to get individual emails, daily digests, or just read the messages on the web.
- Ability to set new members and problem members to "moderated", so their posts are reviewed before they go to the list.
- Keep having webforum posts coming to the list

PROS
----------------
The main benefit of Google Groups is that it shows all the posts for a thread on a single page. The current software makes you go to a brand-new page to see the next post. Yahoo Groups is no better in that regard, so we'd still have that same problem if we switched to Yahoo.

Beyond that, I can't see many tangible benefits to moving to Google. Yes, the posts at Google/Yahoo can be made available to anyone on the web, but we could do that with our current software if we so chose.

CONS
----------------
The only downside of moving that I can think of is that we will likely lose a lot of members in the transition since not everyone is going to get around to signing up at Google/Yahoo. One might also consider the lack of a compelling reason to move the list to be a con.

I'm sure I'm missing some pros/cons. Please discuss.

[Note: Please don't vote here -- this thread is for *discussion*. Email list members can send their votes to the email address listed in the post I made to the email list.]

MichaelBluejay · 2009-03-03 20:52:03

and keeping up a custom-designed web-forum seems of decreasing value in this day of free services like Yahoo or Google.

Let's keep the discussion on-topic about the question at hand, please, which is whether to move the email list. The question isn't about the web forum. However, let me mention, as I've done many times, that using this webforum software allows me to put the titles of discussion and events right on the front page of Bicycle Austin, something that's impossible if we kill this webforum. Though again, this discussion isn't about the webforum, it's about the email list.

How many times do we need to keep asking people whether they want web or email???

Zero. We've never asked that question. People keep trying to answer that question for some reason although it's never been asked. I know some people like the email flavor and some like the web, which is one of the reasons we have both. I've never polled people on which they prefer, because it doesn't matter, because as long as there's a sizable number of people in each camp, we'll have both.

paulsjv · 2009-03-05 10:46:56

If moving to Yahoo/Google what would the point of having the forums be?

It could be reasonable to have a period of transition where if things to move to one of the other groups that say over a 6 month time you give people the option to move to the group. After the 6 month period no one could respond on the email list but you could sign up the list to get the digest from the group and if they wanted to respond to a topic they would have to sign up.

Anyway, just some thoughts. :)

Last edited by paulsjv (2009-03-05 10:47:10)

MichaelBluejay · 2009-03-05 13:11:24

If moving to Yahoo/Google what would the point of having the forums be?

Good point, but I've addressed this many times, including in this very thread. Having this forum lets me put the discussion titles and a list of events on the front page of http://BicycleAustin.info automatically. Have a look. People are always wanting me to publicize their events, and I don't have time to do so, but now anyone can get their event on the front page of Bicycle Austin themselves. I can also show visitors what's currently being discussed on the forum, and provide direct links to those discussions. These things are impossible if we go to Yahoo/Google. I feel this front-page feature is especially crucial. I don't know if others feel the same way, but it seems rather important to me.

Also, another reason to keep the web forum is that I use the ad revenue from the site to support local cycling issues. Can't do that we Yahoo/Google either, they keep all the ad money for themselves. Yes, there are no ads on the forum now, but that doesn't mean I can't add some unobtrusive ads in the future.

However, if we do move to Yahoo/Google, I do promise that I'll let our community decide whether we should kill this web forum. That option will be on the table. However, we're pretty far from deciding whether to move the list to Yahoo/Google, because so far only 9 people have voted one way or the other. I'm not going to make such a huge decision without more community input.

Thanks for your comments about the transition. But let's save the discussion of how to do a transition until we know that we're actually moving the email list. Towards that end, let's keep discussing here the pros & cons of moving the email list to Yahoo/Google.

About that, one listmember said we should leave the list where it's at, because:

If you move it to google or yahoo groups, moderators are going to have a big headache having to highlight & erase all the ad text that appears next to each message and gets forwarded with every quoted reply.

That's something I hadn't thought of. Of course, the alternative is for the mods to not put in the work to clean up the posts, but then members have a poorer experience if the posts are flooded with ads. It's hard for me to speak to this because I've never run a Yahoo/Google group before. Has anyone run one of those groups who can comment?

MichaelBluejay · 2009-03-09 12:51:07

Okay, I might have a solution that will please most everyone. I first want to better understand the driving force behind the desire to go to Google/Yahoo Groups. Is it to make sure messages from each medium (web, email) show up in the other medium? We have half that right now (web posts go to the email list), but not the other way around (email posts don't go to the web forum). So if we added that ability, (email posts go to the web forum), would that satisfy the wants of people who thought we should move the mailing list to Google/Yahoo? Or are there other reasons people want to move the list to Google/Yahoo?

If getting the email posts to the web forum solves the problem, then I see two possible solutions:

(1) I write some software that sends the email posts to the web forum. Or,
(2) I write a brand-new mailing list system, that's integrated into the web forum.

#2 is a lot more work so I hope #1 would be satisfactory to most people.

If there are other big reasons people want to move the mailing list to Google/Yahoo Groups besides the ability to have email posts go to the web, let's hear them.

Please post your thoughts here. Thank you to everyone helping us make the best decision.

damicoaustin · 2009-03-11 12:17:27

I'm a big fan of the forums, so I wish this wouldn't have gotten so complicated for users. And I like how easy the forum is now...easy to search, easy to post to, etc. However, one advantage of Yahoo/Google is that it is well-known now for a lot of people and thus easy for them to use and understand the constraints (usually). We wouldn't have discussions over what to do, because we wouldn't have any choice.

Google also provides a format that somewhat simulates a forum and email list, so that's nice. File posts for both are OK...I get somewhat frustrated that I can't send files via the forum email.

Also one feature I've never used, but just noticed on Google seems appealing:
Abridged Email (No more than 1 email per day)
Get a summary of new activity each day

jareha · 2009-03-11 14:17:05

On Google Groups (and Yahoo) there's no distinction between posts made via email or made directly on groups.google.com. Even if we were to recreate the email to web functionality (and vice versa) with a mailing list/forum implementation, I would still prefer the seamlessness of Google's implementation.

Responses to some of your earlier posts follow:

MichaelBluejay wrote:

Having this forum lets me put the discussion titles and a list of events on the front page of http://BicycleAustin.info automatically. Have a look. People are always wanting me to publicize their events, and I don't have time to do so, but now anyone can get their event on the front page of Bicycle Austin themselves. I can also show visitors what's currently being discussed on the forum, and provide direct links to those discussions. These things are impossible if we go to Yahoo/Google.

Google Groups provides RSS functionality by default, which makes aggregation of list content on the homepage of Bicycle Austin easy.

MichaelBluejay wrote:

However, if we do move to Yahoo/Google, I do promise that I'll let our community decide whether we should kill this web forum. That option will be on the table. However, we're pretty far from deciding whether to move the list to Yahoo/Google, because so far only 9 people have voted one way or the other. I'm not going to make such a huge decision without more community input.

Did you count my vote (and those of others) made here earlier? Or should we vote again via email?

MichaelBluejay · 2009-03-11 23:18:39

I've said many times that I count votes only the way I asked for them -- by email. But really, how many votes from actual listmembers were in this thread earlier, two? (Bruno isn't a member of the list.) That would take the tally up to a whopping 8 or so people wanting us to move the list to Google/Yahoo, and I'm not uprooting and relocating a 339-person list with such small demand to do so. At this point I'm leaning towards going with a new in-house system that integrates forum and email, like Google/Yahoo does but running on Bicycle Austin. This whole discussion has been fairly fruitless anyway, few people have spoken specifically to the questions I've asked, and many people keep repeating questions or false assertions that have already been addressed a gazillion times -- and many keep complaining that they don't care to discuss this anyway, so this might be a good time to end the discussion.

Bicycle Austin forum

#1 2009-03-03 13:31:24

Whether to move the email list to Yahoo/Google?

#2 2009-03-03 20:52:03

Re: Whether to move the email list to Yahoo/Google?

#3 2009-03-05 10:46:56

Re: Whether to move the email list to Yahoo/Google?

#4 2009-03-05 13:11:24

Re: Whether to move the email list to Yahoo/Google?

#5 2009-03-09 12:51:07

Re: Whether to move the email list to Yahoo/Google?

#6 2009-03-11 12:17:27

Re: Whether to move the email list to Yahoo/Google?

#7 2009-03-11 14:17:05

Re: Whether to move the email list to Yahoo/Google?

#8 2009-03-11 23:18:39

Re: Whether to move the email list to Yahoo/Google?

Board footer