- Some people are saying that
monorail (elevated trains) would be better for Austin
than light rail (street-level trains). This issue was
debated extensively on the austin-bikes email list in
9-01 and 5-02, and the highlights of that dialogue are
below. To save you the trouble of wading through it, our
conclusions are below.
|
Light
Rail
|
Monorail
|
Convenience
|
|
|
Proven Technology
|
|
|
More stops
|
|
|
New stops can be added easily after
construction
|
|
|
Safety
|
|
|
Minimal disruption during
construction
|
|
|
Takes minimal amount of roadspace
|
|
|
Can operate without a driver
|
|
|
Voter Appeal
(presumed)
|
|
|
Construction Cost
|
$
|
$
|
Operating Cost
|
$
|
$
|
Speed
|
|
|
Aesthetics (subjective)
|
|
|
Ways Light
Rail is Better
|
Ways
Monorail is Better
|
CONVENIENCE. Light
rail wins here because trains on the street are
easy to get on and off. Monorail stations are
elevated, and require passengers to go up and down
to and from the stations.
PROVEN TECHNOLOGY.
There are numerous successful light rail systems
around the world and it has an excellent track
record. But there are only a handful of monorail
systems, outside of amusement parks. Voters and
governments might be leery of spending money on
monorail since they might view it as more of a
gamble.
MORE STOPS. Stops
for the proposed monorail system are about a mile
apart, while stops for the proposed light rail
system are more frequent, at about 0.8 miles
apart.
NEW STOPS CAN BE ADDED
EASILY AFTER CONSTRUCTION. Since light rail
runs on the street, new stops can go just about
anywhere along the street. But adding a monorail
stop requires constructing an elevated platform
with stairs and elevators.
Ways
LRT & Monorail are
Tied
|
CONSTRUCTION
COST. Both LRT & monorail
proponents argue that their kind of train
system is cheaper. The arguments are
lengthy and complex and there's no clear
winner, so we'll call it a tie. The best
we can figure, the cost of monorail or
light rail are roughly comparable at
around $50 million/mile. But monorail can
be cheaper in places where right-of-way
(land) is very expensive and density is
very high. Thus, monorail makes sense for
the Las Vegas Strip while light rail could
be a better choice for a sprawling
metropolis like Dallas.
OPERATING
COST. Operating costs seem roughly
comparable. Monorail probably doesn't save
overall by not needing an operator, since
monorail stations need additional security
and other personnel.
SPEED.
Monorail is faster than light rail,
because it's grade-separated (i.e.,
doesn't mix with cars), but the advantage
may be slight. LRT doesn't lose time at
red lights because rail systems trigger
the lights when approaching, so the train
doesn't have to stop. And any advantage
that monorail has in extra speed is
probably negated by the fact that it has
fewer stops, so many riders will have to
spend more time walking to get to and from
the station. Finally, it takes more time
to go up and down to and from an elevated
monorail station rather than simply
stepping onto an LRT train from the
street.
AESTHETICS.
Some people think that elevated monorail
beams obstruct the skyline and are ugly.
Then again, while light rail isn't
elevated, it does have overhead power
lines. Monorail need not be ugly, check
out this large
photo (400k) of a monorail system in
Malaysia. We'll
call this one a tie.
|
|
SAFETY. Since
monorail runs on its own dedicated tracks, there's
nothing for it to run into. But light rail trains,
operating on the street, can have spectacular
collisions with cars, bicycles, and
pedestrians.
MINIMAL DISRUPTION
DURING CONSTRUCTION. Light Rail requires
tearing up the whole road, but monorail requires
only installing pre-fab columns every 100 feet on
top of the road. The columns and beams can be
prefabricated offsite and trucked in at night.
Businesses will especially appreciate the quick
construction time.
TAKES MINIMAL AMOUNT OF
ROADSPACE. Monorail columns look to be only
about half as wide as light rail tracks, and the
columns are spaced 100 feet or so from each other
(unlike rail tracks, which occupy every inch of
their lane).
CAN OPERATE WITHOUT A
DRIVER. Since monorail runs on its own guideway
and it's impossible for the train to run into cars,
the monorail operation can be automated. This COULD
save money, and if so, this means that it would be
possible for the system to run 24/7. Light rail, on
the other hand, requires drivers. The operational
cost of drivers is why the buses don't run 24/7,
and why we can't expect light rail to run 24/7
either.
VOTER APPEAL. Light
rail usually loses when it's placed on the ballot
in some community. But there's reason to believe
that voters might be more likely to approve
monorail than light rail, since monorail seems fun
and exciting. (Most people's experience with
monorali is at Disneyland or Las Vegas.) If
offering a system that's attractive to voters is
what it takes for us to get a train system
installed, then this might be reason ALONE to
support monorail. Even if light rail were better,
it does us no good if the voters won't approve
it.
Here are the results of our survey
conducted of our readers between May-Sept.
2002:
- 48% Monorail
- 36% Light Rail
- 12% Neither
- 4% Undecided
-
- The survey was extremely unscientific, with
only 102 people voting. I didn't bother to check
to make sure people didn't vote twice, since the
turnout was so low that the whole survey is of
little use anyway.
|
Summarized
Positions
FOR
Monorail: "The costs of building monorail and
light rail are about the same. But with monorail, you get a
grade-separated, traffic-independent, fast, public rail
transportation system which can be built at a rate of 5
miles per year and can be fully automated, whereas with
light rail, you get something which can get stuck in
traffic, has catastrophically spectacular collisions with
motor vehicles, is stupendously slow in congested areas, is
going to keep Lamar Blvd. torn up and unusable for years,
after which it will be almost twice as wide as before (with
no clear plan of where to locate stations), but which
probably won't get a chance to do that since even borderline
road warriors (and anyone who ever drives on Lamar) is going
to vote against it." -- Patrick Goetz, Austin
Monorail Project
AGAINST
Monorail:
Monorail is much more expensive than light rail
to build. The fact that no typical North American city has
built one for public transit underscores that nobody thinks
it's a good idea. Monorail is inconvenient, since you have
to take stairs or an elevator to a station to board instead
of just walking onto a light rail car from the street.
Monorails are elevated and are an ugly visual obstruction.
-- Light
Rail Now
-
-
CON
by Light
Rail Now,
2000
-
- MYTH: Exotic, more modern
transit modes, like monorail lines, are a better idea
than light rail.
-
- FACT: Monorail is far from
an effective transit alternative to light
rail. It's a heavy-investment mode,
requiring strictly separated rights-of-way, and mostly
elevated construction. Elevated passenger stations get
you into bigtime construction costs, including elevators.
In contrast, light rail is predominantly a surface mode,
running on railroad rights-of-way, in grassy medians,
even in streets. Light rail stations can be as simple as
a bus stop.
-
- Monorails are cumbersome. Vehicles and hardware are
custom-designed and fabricated, not available
off-the-shelf, like light rail equipment. To switch a
monorail train to a different guideway, several tons of
concrete support beam must be moved by powerful hydraulic
machinery. In contrast, light rail uses standard,
well-proven railway hardware (steel rails, crossties,
etc.). Switching trains to a different track is easy - a
simple lever moves 2 rails just a few inches.
-
- Think about it: If monorails are such a great idea,
then why, over the many decades that monorail technology
has been available, have only places like amusement parks
and zoos found any use for them? The number of cities in
the world where monorails actually perform a general,
practical urban transit function can probably be counted
on the fingers of one hand -- and even there, it's
usually a single-purpose, point-to-point operation, like
the monorail from Seattle's downtown to the Space Needle.
For its regional urban transit system, Seattle's going
with light rail.
-
- There's no need to "reinvent the wheel". Modern light
rail is a highly developed, readily available,
tried-and-true transit mode that can be implemented
relatively quickly and at reasonable cost and it's proven
that people want to ride it!
PRO
by Patrick
Goetz,
9-16-01
- Below are some comments I
forwarded to groupsolutionsrjw and Capital Metro
regarding rail transit in Austin. As someone has
mentioned already, rail will make another ballot
appearance in November of 2002. Has anything changed to
invalidate the criticisms directed at the previous rail
proposal on the ballot last year? I don't think so. The
idea, then, is to come up with a better proposal, one
which addresses most of the problems identified by rail
opponents the last time around; one which can actually
achieve majority support on next year's referendum. One
prominent light rail advocate recently mentioned that
he's been advocating light rail in Austin for 26 years.
That's 26 years of no rail on the ground and a lot of
blab. It's time to actually get some tracks laid out in
concrete and steel rather than glossy "wouldn't it be
great?" brochures, and that's going to require a plan
which works for Austin - not Dallas, or LA, or Baltimore,
or Denver, but Austin.
-
- To get some indication of what
would probably happen next year if the same sad rail plan
is put forth to be voted on again, look no further than
Kansas City: in a previous rail referendum, rail barely
lost; in the one they had last year, rail lost by a
landslide. People already see this plan as a losing horse
and will gleefully stomp it into oblivion in 2002 if they
see it again. Time for a proposal which not only works,
but can actually win public approval. My 1.5 cents, of
course.
-
- ===================================================
- As someone who has lived in cities with a
comprehensive rail transit system and as someone who has
enjoyed the benefits of being able to use rail transit
for over 90% of my transportation needs, I've long been a
strong supporter of rail transit in Austin. During the
last rail referendum, I put a considerable amount of time
and effort towards promoting Capital Metro's light rail
plan despite my own growing concerns about the efficacy
of the system being proposed. As a member of Austin's
Urban Transportation Commission, I repeatedly asked
Capital Metro to provide us with some information as to
why alternative routes/systems were not being considered
or had been rejected, and never received any kind of
response other than something along the lines of "huh?
Oh, yeah" when I suggested what I considered to be common
sense route and system alternatives that should have been
given at least some consideration.
-
- Consequently, in addition to feeling a great sense of
loss and disappointment when the rail referendum failed
by the slimmest of margins last year, I couldn't help but
also think that this was actually the best of all
possible worlds: not only did Austin voters show strong
support for rail transit, but now we were being afforded
the opportunity to rethink the entire proposed system and
perhaps come up with something much better. I fired up my
computer, got on the Internet, and over the course of
several months, put some effort towards trying to figure
out what kind of a rapid transit system would work best
for Austin (in my admittedly and decidedly amateur
opinion).
-
- In what follows, I will first describe the system and
route which I consider to be the best choice for a first
rail system for Austin, Texas. I will then list the 7
most critical reasons why the previous rail initiative
failed and how my proposal addresses these points.
-
- In a nutshell, what Austin needs first and foremost
is a rapid transit backbone to activate our existing
network of buses. This backbone should follow one or two
major transportation corridors as closely as possible,
both in order to maximize the direct utility of the
system and to control and direct the changes in urban
land use which will accompany the introduction of a high
capacity rail transit system.
-
- Rapid means fast. IT SHOULD BE AN AXIOM OF TRANSIT
PLANNING IN AUSTIN THAT A MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WILL NEITHER
SUPPORT NOR USE A (relatively expensive) RAIL TRANSIT
SYSTEM WHICH DOESN'T GET THEM AROUND FASTER THAN THEY CAN
SITTING IN TRAFFIC IN THEIR CARS. Rapid means minimizing
inter modal conflict, and the only way to guarantee
little or no inter modal conflict is grade separation.
Grade separation means either subway or elevated, and it
is relatively clear that we don't have the population
density at this time to support the expense of a subway
system. This leaves us with elevated, and my research
indicates that monorail is the most cost effective
elevated rail transit system. Consequently, the first
rail system we implement in Austin should be a high speed
monorail backbone which serves as a collector for most if
not all bus routes.
-
- Route: One of the benefits of monorail is that it
allows us to run the rail line along existing
transportation corridors without requiring too much (if
any) additional right of way. A monorail line could be
installed along Lamar and/or Congress with support
columns that fit entirely into the existing center turn
lane. This fact makes the route selection both natural
and obvious.
-
- For our backbone system, I propose that the rail line
start at a large Park&Ride facility at Howard and
I-35, proceed down Lamar to Guadalupe, and then down
Guadalupe to Palmer Auditorium/Riverside. From there, the
line would bifurcate, with one branch proceeding down
Riverside and ending at the Austin-Bergstrom Airport, and
the other line going south on Congress and ending at
either Ben White or Wm. Cannon. One would expect that
another Park&Ride structured parking facility would
be built at the southern terminus of the system.
-
- The choices of Lamar and Congress precisely fit the
previously mentioned criteria; i.e. they're major
transportation corridors surrounded by largely commercial
and large institutional properties, and are good
candidates for the additional developmental densities the
introduction of a rail system will stimulate. Further, by
proceeding down Guadalupe en route to the downtown area,
the system can have stops directly at the locations of
Austin's two largest employers, namely UT and the state
government complex.
-
- Let's briefly consider some of the benefits of having
the rail line run directly along the Lamar corridor:
-
- - land is available for a large Park & Ride at
I-35 and Howard
- - the northern end is dominated by large apartment
complexes, relatively
- high density population centers that would benefit
from rail transit
- - Lamar and Rundberg is a major commercial
center
- - Lamar and 183 has a major Capital Metro transit
center
- - land is available for an additional Park & Ride
facility
- at Lamar and Koenig Lane
- - the system could include stops at the DPS facility,
the School for
- the Blind, and the state Health and Human Services
Complex
- - the system could include a stop at the
as-yet-to-be-developed but
- very high density Triangle complex at Guadalupe and
Lamar
-
- Similar arguments can be made for the Congress
corridor (The School for the Deaf, St. Edwards
University, etc.)
-
- Now, on to the bullet items:
-
- THE SEVEN REASONS WHY RAIL
FAILED IN THE LAST ELECTION (in increasing order of
importance) AND HOW MONORAIL ADDRESSES THESE
ISSUES
-
- 1. Disruption of Neighborhoods
-
- By proposing to use existing rail lines passing
through neighborhoods such as Crestwood, Capital Metro
turned what should have been inner city rail supporters
into staunch rail opponents. Had the people in these
north central Austin neighborhoods voted for rather than
against rail, this alone could have provided the margin
of victory in the last referendum for/against rail.
-
- Not only that, but it simply doesn't make sense to
run a transportation rail system through extremely low
density SF-3 zoned neighborhoods. The cost savings of
using existing rail simply doesn't make up for the poor
route choice this results in, especially when one
considers a long term view. The rail line should go where
the people are and where the people want to go, and that
means major transportation arterials with current or the
capacity for high density commercial and residential land
use applications. As already outlined, the proposed
monorail system runs right down Lamar, minimizing the
disruption of area neighborhoods and maximizing the
utility of the system.
-
- 2. Inter modal Conflict
-
- Has anyone from Capital Metro other than a few long
suffering #1 bus drivers ever bothered to take a look at
North Lamar Blvd. at 5 pm on an average weekday? The
traffic is horrendous. Many, many people drive on Lamar
every day, and when those people start to try and
visualize how many cars will be displaced by a surface
rail system, their hands will immediately start reaching
for the "just say NO" lever.
-
- For the vast majority of people in Austin, rail is as
yet an untested transportation option. Who knows if it
will work? Meanwhile, we better not screw up what we
already have, namely our existing arterials designed for
motor vehicle traffic. I don't think that this is a
terribly unreasonable perspective, particularly for
someone who's never experienced the benefits a rail
system can provide.
-
- The previously proposed surface rail system would
have taken up vast stretches of real estate on Lamar
between Airport and Guadalupe. For a large number of
Austinites, this presents an unacceptable disruption of
the motor vehicle-based transportation system they are
already familiar and comfortable with.
-
- As previously outlined, a monorail system would
minimize the impact on existing traffic on Lamar and
Congress. Of course a subway would take up no space at
all on the roadway, but I don't believe we're anywhere
close to the population densities or size needed to make
subway a cost-effective solution.
-
- 3. Frequency of Service
-
- A public transportation system which only runs some
of the time is limited in its potential to get people out
of their cars because of the fear of getting stranded
some place when the train is no longer running. Once
built, the single biggest expense of a rail system is
labor; with our existing bus system, for example, the
biggest expense in adding or extending the service hours
is the bus driver, and this must always be taken into
consideration when route determinations are made.
-
- A surface rail system will always require drivers due
to inter modal conflict. A monorail system, on the other
hand, can be fully automated, allowing one to run trains
without incurring the expense of a driver. A single set
of operators can manage an entire network of trains from
a central location, helping to reduce labor costs and
removing this as a factor in determining what frequency
of service and what service hours can be afforded the
customers. Consequently, we can have extended service
hours and frequency of service before a strong demand for
these services exists, allowing the existence of the
service to stimulate the demand. One possible
consequence? Fewer drunk drivers endangering themselves
and others on our roadways from 2-4 am.
-
- 4. Utility
-
- That is, does the system go to the destinations that
people want to go to? Again, since monorail can and
should be deployed along existing major arterial
roadways, one is assured that the rail service will go to
the destinations that people want to go to, since these
destinations are almost always located along major
arterials for convenience of access by motor vehicle
traffic. If the train goes the same places the cars are
going, the path will probably be one of greatest utility.
Maximizing utility will negate the "Does too Little" part
of "Costs too Much, Does too Little".
-
- 5. Deployment
-
- By all rights, the merchants along Congress Ave.
should have been fanatically in favor of a transportation
rail transit system along Congress Ave.. Instead, they
were dead set against it. They even hired a lobbyist,
former council member Max Nofziger, to speak out against
the deployment of rail. Why? Fear of the disruption of
access to their businesses construction of the rail line
would cause. Installing a surface rail system would tear
up the entire roadway for months, if not years, not to
mention the large amounts of additional right of way
which would need to be appropriated from property owners
to accommodate the rail system.
-
- One of the benefits of monorail is that the actual
rails can be pre-manufactured off site and simply placed
on the support pillars. The only track construction which
takes place on site is the installation of the support
pillars, and these need only be placed every 100-200
feet. Consequently, the disruption of traffic and access
to businesses along the route is minimized. For any
particular part of the street, there are problems while
the support pillar(s) are being installed, but after a
few days the construction crew moves on, leaving a fully
functional street (and fully accessible businesses)
behind.
-
- The light rail system proposed in the previous
referendum had a build-out time of 20 years. 20 years!!!
Who wants to wait 20 years to enjoy the benefits of rail?
To hell with that, give me another lane for my car, let
me keep a big chunk of my billion dollars and I'll make
do somehow; according to this plan I would have to anyway
- there is no other choice.
-
- According to one communication I had with an
engineering firm, a single crew can deploy 5 miles of
monorail track in a single year. By this reckoning, with
4 crew working simultaneously, we could have our entire
monorail system in less than 3 years! 3 years is a time
frame I (and most other people) can live with. 20 years
is an outrageous and unacceptable amount of time to
wait.
-
- 6. Speed
-
- This point can't be stressed enough. People will
simply not use a system which is slower than sitting in
traffic in their own car. They might if parking were
severely limited, but this is not the case in Austin; on
the contrary, the downtown area is infested with an ever
growing number of parking garages. Why on earth would
anyone choose to sit in traffic in a bus or in a surface
rail car when they can just as well sit in traffic in the
air conditioned, radio and CD player equipped comfort of
their own car? The average speed of the previously
proposed surface rail system was 11 miles per hour. At
this speed, I would never use the train because I can get
to any destination in Austin faster on my bicycle!
-
- According to my calculations, a monorail system with
stations placed at intervals of 1 mile can easily achieve
a cruising speed of 70 mph between stops, allowing for an
average speed of about 28 mph (with stopping time
included). Since the system enjoys grade separation,
there is never any need to slow down at intersections or
stop because, for example, a another vehicle is stalled
or stopped on the track due traffic jams. This is a much
higher average speed than one can get traveling downtown
by automobile, particularly during rush hour. Combined
with convenient frequency and hours of service, this is
all that it takes to get commuters out of their cars and
onto the train. Once they do it, they'll never look back,
and a rail-friendly environment will have been
established, allowing for additional rail routes
(including, perhaps, surface rail on existing rail right
of way and a downtown trolley system as part of the
transportation mix).
-
- Light synchronization DOES NOT solve the inter modal
conflict problems surface rail suffers from. The driver
must still slow down and make sure some errant motorist
isn't absentmindedly running the red light. And in the
case of severe traffic jams and gridlock, surface rail
vehicles are stuck in traffic just like everyone else.
Consequently, what's the point? Why spend hundreds of
millions of dollars on a system which will not only
displace cars and vastly widen the roadway, but in the
final analysis, doesn't improve quality of service? The
only way to guarantee a fixed service time regardless of
traffic conditions is grade separation. For Austin, grade
separation means monorail - there is no other practical
choice.
-
- In short, LET'S KEEP THE RAPID IN RAPID TRANSIT.
-
- 7. Cost
-
- One argument made against monorail is that it is
considerably more expensive than a surface rail system.
The argument made (successfully, I might add) against
surface rail is that it "Costs too Much, Does too
Little". Monorail solves the "Does too Little" part of
this sound bite by providing fast, guaranteed service
along existing major arterials to the destinations people
want to go to. What about cost? My research indicates
that - done right - monorail is no more expensive than
surface rail. In the previous rail referendum, the cost
of surface rail was estimated at 30 million dollars per
mile. In an e-mail sent to me, David Owen of the Owen
Transit Group, Inc. (http://www.OTG-Inc.com) cites costs
for a monorail line which are considerably lower. Here is
an excerpt from Mr. Owens comments:
-
- Our HighRoad numbers, however,
are accurate. So much so that we'd be willing to contract
to it. (Our web site states the complete cost of a
typical 20-mile system in the Atlanta area would be
$22.5m/mile... Austin costs would be similar.) In
general, the major cost items have been project priced
from vendors... this includes the guideway manufacturer,
vehicle manufacturer, controls vendor, etc.. We are an
engineering firm. This is what we do. Others in the
aircraft industry have given us extensive "peer reviews"
and concluded our costs to be accurate and
reasonable.
-
- We cost analyzed
conservatively, that is, in areas requiring parametric
costing, we chose to set cost estimates too high rather
than too low. Further, our manufacturing and costing
standards are based on aerospace industry tolerances
rather than the lower bus/transit standards. We desire to
shake the industry with a quality product at a price
point well below others in the same capacity range (such
as heavy rail). Light rail, btw, falls far short of our
capacity.
-
- The cost of light rail being
asserted at $25m/mile is unique! A more typical industry
history has shown the minimum cost to be
$42m/mile.
- As previously mentioned, one of the benefits of
monorail is that the actual rails can be pre-manufactured
off site and simply placed on the support pillars. One
way of cutting costs would be to have the actual rails
manufactured locally, perhaps even by Capital Metro! In
any case, it should be clear that the price of a monorail
system can be competitive with the cost of deploying
surface rail, and perhaps even cheaper.
-
- A valid point is that monorail stations will be more
expensive to build because they are elevated. On the
other hand, they can be built over the roadway, reducing
the amount of right of way which will need to be acquired
along Lamar and Congress. One way of mitigating these
costs is by including rental space for fast food and
commercial vendors in the station design. In the final
analysis, the expense of elevating the station should not
be prohibitive, particular in light of the reduced cost
of land acquisition.
-
- By every measure, monorail is the only rational
solution for Austin.
-
PRO
by Tom Hopkins, 9-18-01
- Here are two more big points in favor of
monorail:
-
- #1. People vote for monorails, they often don't
vote for light rail. "Monorail" may be the most
powerful brand in the world. Several polls have shown
that the high-speed monorail proposed for Colorado enjoys
positives of over 80% and negatives of only 15%. This is
at the outset before the well-financed highway lobby
begins their attack so we expect this to drop, but it
shows the starting point. Not even "Coca Cola", often
described as the world's strongest brand, enjoys such
high positives and low negatives.
-
- If you propose a monorail, you had better present
something that looks like the Disney monorails because
this is what people think of when they attribute
wonderful vibes to "monorail". Disney has the most
successful transportation systems in the history of world
- over two billion passengers, not a single death, and
very high levels of satisfaction. In every single ballot
in which a monorail was compared with other transit
systems, the monorail has won hands down. The public
loves 'em.
-
- #2 People will ride monorails, few will ride light
rail. In corridors with light rail beside the
highway, light rail does not attract even 5% of the
travelers. Light rail makes virtually no difference to
the congestion on the highway, and if you want to win the
election, you have to win the votes of all the drivers
who want all those other people off the highway so they
get a clear shot. I think the reason that the vast
majority of people don't ride light rail is because it is
too slow - averaging a lousy 11 to 14 MPH. Like Patrick
says, he can beat it on his bike.
-
- On the other hand, we have every reason to believe
that lots of people will ride the high-speed monorail.
CDOT did a massive survey in which they interviewed 1,400
people who had just driven I-70. An extraordinary 63%
said they would consider riding the monorail instead of
driving (by comparison, only 11% said they would consider
a bus or van). In CDOT's combined summer & winter
surveys where over 4,100 people were interviewed, very
high numbers of each market segment said they "definitely
would" or "probably would" ride the monorail.
-
- The above surveys were done on an intercity system
with some metro components - stations 10 to 15 miles
apart and lots of express monorails. However, the
high-speed monorail proposed for Colorado would be very
fast in a metro application with stations just three
miles apart. I said it would average over 50 MPH in a
previous post, was challenged for claiming such a high
speed, but was able to demonstrate with simulations that
we could actually average over 70 MPH (if power usage was
not an issue) while keeping acceleration rates low enough
to allow people to walk about the cabin.
-
- If you'd like a whole lot more information and
arguments, please go to http://highspeedmonorail.com.
-
CON
by Nawdry@aol,
9-20-01
- I wish to respond, at least in an initial, brief way,
to Patrick Goetz's posting of 16 September, in which he
tells us "By every measure, monorail is the only rational
solution for Austin."
-
- First of all, I believe the notion that there is
one and only one mode of public transit which is the
"only rational solution" for anywhere is a simplistic and
unproductive approach to the problem of improving
mobility. I urge all those on this list in the Austin
area who seek a better transit system to participate in
Capital Metro's Rapid Transit Area Teams process in a
manner which recognizes that it's a complex problem
requiring careful scrutiny of all the issues involved,
and particuarly that there's no single "mode du jour"
which offers a magic-bullet, miracle solution.
-
- In a sense, Patrick is turning the clock back
about 25 years or so, when a monorail was first evaluated
as a possible solution in the Austin Transportation Study
process, in which I was involved from about 1975.
Monorail, along with a number of other alternatives (such
as subway/elevated rail and PRT), was eliminated at that
time as a preferred mode for areawide implementation
because of an array of weaknesses in comparison with the
other modes which were carried forward (light rail
transit and busways). At the time, light rail transit
(LRT) was not in high favor. The nation had only 15 or 20
years before finished removing the last vestiges of
surface electric rail transit systems in most of its
cities, and monorails, PRT, and other "reinventions of
the wheel" were very much in vogue ~ reflected in the
installation of monorails in central Seattle and a number
of recreational settings, and in large dollops of cash
bestowed by the federal government (Urban Mass
Transportation Administration, or UMTA, precursor to the
FTA) for a variety of experimental new "guideway"
projects.
-
- So why did LRT emerge as a more promising rail
candidate from this process? Mainly because, deployed in
hundreds of countries worldwide, LRT has a very
extensive, and positive, "track record". There are
many dozens of competitive suppliers. It is extremely
flexible, able to operate from tracks in streets with
mixed traffic to median segregations to totally
grade-separated elevated or subway alignments. LRT has
proven that it can attract substantial numbers of
travellers out of automobiles. And, despite the hype and
claims of promoters of monorails, PRT, and other
supposedly "low-cost" alternatives, LRT has been
demonstrated to represent the lowest-cost rail
construction and operation in most real-world
deployments.
-
- Monorail, in contrast, has been installed in a
relative handful of cities worldwide ~ mainly in Japan,
where high densities, government policies, and financial
peculiarities are among the factors favoring their
deployment in a few situations ~ mainly shuttle-type
services in very compacted, congested urban corridors.
(And keep in mind that in Japan conventional 2-rail
transit is seeing many times the level of development of
monorails.)
-
- Monorail systems present planners and designers
with many problems the more closely they are evaluated.
The main problem is the lack of flexibility ~ the need
for total grade separation, typically on an elevated beam
(guideway). Thus monorails are, in effect, a form of
"heavy rail" rapid transit. But a more workable
alternative is usually a conventional 2-rail system,
primarily because of the greater flexibility and
availability of the hardware ~ standardized rails, power
and control systems, switches, vehicle designs, etc. In
contrast, there are a number of monorail systems, but
they're mostly proprietary ~ leaving planners with the
problem of whether they'll be able to get replacement
parts, replacement vehicles, etc. down the line without
having to contract for expensive, custom-made
products.
-
- Another major problem is the storage and
maintenance facilities, all requiring thousands of feet,
possibly miles, of monorail beams for vehicle storage.
Such facilities also typically need lots of switches
~ a logistical nightmare, given the relative cumbersome,
complex characteristics of monorail switches. This may be
okay for a small-scale system ~ a point-to-point shuttle
or a Disney World system ~ but it can balloon into a big
headache for a city thinking of a network of multiple
lines and hundreds of vehicles serving and expanding with
a growing area.
-
- Then there's cost. Monorail proponents often
lowball the costs of their proposed alternatives ~
Patrick cites costs claimed by a vendor, clearly anxious
to land an initial contract. These "theoretical" costs ~
usually encompassing simple construction, sometimes with
or without stations, maintenance facilities, etc. ~ are
invariably counterposed to the real-world costs cited for
LRT, which take into account the array of actual costs
encountered in any real transit project ~ engineering and
project administration, real estate acquisition,
mobilization, contingencies, and more. This
"apples-oranges" comparison often deceives a gullible
public.
-
- Basically, there is little cost differential
between heavy-duty, high-capacity elevated rail systems ~
monorail, RRT, or LRT. The structure still has to be
strong enough to stand the static and dynamic stresses of
heavily loaded, fast-moving trains. Elevated stations
must be safely constructed and ADA-compliant, requiring
stairs, elevators, and usually escalators. A similarly
grade-separated, elevated LRT system would offer the
advantage of lower-cost surface construction where
traffic problems are less of an issue. But the bottom
line is: Elevated construction is considerably more
costly than surface. You can built far more system on the
surface, implementing much more "spread", and serving
much more of any given metro area, than you ever will
with an elevated system.
-
- A far more valid comparison of monorail costs with
those of LRT would use a real-world project for a
revenue-service system in a major urban deployment. The
opportunity for such a comparison is offered by the
monorail project in Las Vegas, currently under way.
This is a privately funded project ~ basically, a
consortium of casinos decided they wanted a "space-age"
monorail to serve the Strip (another "point-to-point"
shuttle-type monorail deployment). Thus it has not had to
pass the rigorous planning benchmarks and regulations
required for Federal Transit Administration (FTA)
funding, as the Austin LRT project has done. Installation
of the 3.8-mile monorail line is being financed through
$650 million in state-issued bonds ~ a cost of $171
million/mile. That's about 8 times the per-mile cost
claimed by Patrick's vendor and cited by Patrick as proof
that monorail costs "are considerably lower".
Furthermore, the projected fare per ride is $2.50, a
level which has aroused sketpicism about the consortium's
ridership projections.
-
- One can draw a lesson here. The cost of this or
that "mode du jour" can be theoretically "calculated" to
be ever so low by proprietary vendors and zealous
proponents. Experience has repeatedly shown that,
when planners and engineers get down to the detailed
tasks of actually trying to fit these systems, with their
real-world requirements, into the hard realities of a
developed central-city area, the actual challenges and
costs quickly become apparent.
-
- Another consideration is reliability and
availability of the technology. LRT is extremely
well-proven, with over a century of development,
widespread deployment, and excellent off-the-shelf
availability. Where is Patrick's recommended
"HighRoad" system operating? What's its record in revenue
passenger service? Has any locality implemented it even
in a simple, short experimental scenario?
-
- Patrick goes on at great length about the absolute
and utterly unavoidable need for total grade separation,
and I intend to respond to this at greater length in a
subsequent posting (this is also the argument for other
alternatives such as subways and PRT). At this point, let
me just point out that surface LRT has been operating in
this country and Canada since the 1970s, and has been far
from the disaster Patrick suggests. On the contrary, from
San Diego to Portland to Dallas to Baltimore, these
systems have demonstrated not only that they can work
well, but also that they have had considerable success in
boosting ridership, attracting passengers from
automobiles, and in most cases stimulating an expansion
of the overall predominatly bus-based transit system. In
Dallas, LRT trains routinely cross streets with heavy
cross-traffic in both North Dallas and Oak Cliff without
catastrophic delays; likewise in St. Louis, Salt Lake
City, Sacramento, San Jose, Los Angeles, and other cities
with LRT. Patrick's dark vision of trains having to "slow
down or stop because ... another vehicle is stalled or
stopped on the track due [to] traffic jams" is
certainly not typical of the operating reality of the new
LRT systems which have been installed in North
America.
-
- Patrick also argues that monorails can be totally
automated, and total automation will inherently reduce
operating costs. This is also a claim on behalf of PRT,
and I intend to address it at greater length in a
subsequent posting. For now I will just point out that
a number of studies tend to disprove this claim, noting
that the absence of a train operator is more than
compensated for in the need for additional maintenance,
security, and other personnel. A 1988 study published
by the Transportation Research Board, for example
(Special Report 221), actually presented data that showed
LRT to have LOWER operating costs than automated systems.
I will note that the projected fare of $2.50 to ride Las
Vegas's monorail also raises skepticism about the claim
of much lower operating cost due to automated
operation.
-
- In his zeal to promote a monorail alternative,
Patrick unfortunately stretches facts substantially.
For example, Patrick exaggerates the time to implement
an LRT system: "The light rail system proposed in the
previous referendum had a build-out time of 20 years."
Patrick denounces this with outrage, and claims 5 miles
of monorail could be built in a year. In reality, the
initial 12.5-mile LRT line line was proposed for
operation within 8 years of voter approval ~ and the
implementation time included the time for design, real
estate acquisition, mobilization, and other crucial
preconstruction tasks, to which Patrick contrasts simply
the time of monorail guideway construction. The 20-year
estimate for total buildout applied to the entire 43-mile
LRT system, and was constrained not simply by the array
of necessary and required tasks in any major rail project
installation but also by the availability of funding. All
of this would, of course, apply equally to monorail
development.
-
- Patrick also claims that the LRT system proposed
for Austin would have an average speed of 11 mph. Similar
claims were made by ROAD and many of its supporters
during last year's campaign. It has no factual basis.
According to data provided by Capital Metro's consulting
team, the entire north-south route, from Howard Lane to
Ben White, would have an average speed, with stops (and
allowance for occasional delays at intersections) of 21
mph. The average speed from Howard Lane to downtown (8th
St.) would be even faster ~ 23 mph.
-
- By comparison, average urban local bus speed is
about 12 mph. Average all-day urban automobile speed is
about 25 mph, but slower during peak hours. LRT would
be particularly competitive with automobiles during peak
times (the average speed would be consistent during all
hours).
-
- Patrick envisions a monorail line with a maximum
speed of 70 mph, and claims an average speed of 28 mph.
However, to accomplish that, he stipulates average
station spacing of 1.0 mile -- which is wider that the
0.8-mile spacing assumed for LRT for the CBD-Howard
(north/south) line. This additional 0.2 mile translates
into a 4-minute additional walking access time. Together
with the additional access needed to negotiate stairs,
escalators, or elevators to reach the elevated platforms,
this adds about as much access time as the running time
saved by the higher speed. Incidentally, the south LRT
segment to Ben White would have a spacing of about 0.5
mile.
-
- Lengthening the stop spacing does make a higher
maximum speed feasible, but it also lengthens the time
and difficulty of passenger access to stations,
especially in the central-city portions of the route.
Furthermore, access to elevated stations imposes yet
additional difficulty and time penalties. To ridership
forecasters, all these additional access time penalties
are translated into "disutilities" or "impedances" in the
ridership modelling process. Since these are weighted
more heavily than running time, the effect of more widely
spaced elevated stations may be to negatively impact
ridership, despite a faster maximum speed.
-
- I must also point out that, in envisioning a 70-mph
system, Patrick is effectively counterproposing a
BART-type, heavy rail rapid transit (RRT) system more
suitable for highspeed regional commuter trips over
longer distances (e.g., widely dispersed suburbs, as in
the Bay Area). LRT is envisioned as a cross between
commuter and limited-stop services, and is designed to
serve and enable easier access to inner-city origins and
destinations. Thus once more, apples are being compared
to oranges.
-
- Austin might be able to afford to construct a
monorail system ~ all 5 miles or so of an initial line,
and 12 miles or so of a built-out system ~ but what kind
of access and ridership would this provide? How
expandable would such a system be? Where has it
demonstrated success in a similar setting? What are the
implications for vehicle storage, maintenance, and future
procurements? These are issues which the Rapid
Transit Area Teams process is intended to address. I urge
participants in that process to keep a keen eye out for
hard facts, and to be wary of glib claims for supposedly
miracle panaceas.
-
-
PRO
by Patrick
Goetz,
9-20-01
- I extensively argue that what Austin is most in need
of is a high speed backbone system to activate the
existing bus network. I didn't see anything in LH's
response which addresses this point one way or the other.
Since optimizing the public transportation system should
be the most important consideration (if not the ONLY
consideration) in implementing any new transporation
options, and since LH's response doesn't even address
this point, one begins to suspect that light rail
advocates are motivated more by some kind of romantic
infatuation with surface rail or trolley systems than
they are by having the most effective public
transportation system money can buy. This, in a nutshell,
is why a very large percentage of Austinites are
extremely suspicious of rail and explains the
unreasonable efficacy of a single 6 word phrase (costs
too much, does too little).
-
- In particular, in my original post I explicitly say
that traditional surface rail utilizing existing rail
right of way and perhaps a downtown trolley circulator
might very well be excellent additions to the public
transportation mix AFTER a high speed backbone has been
implemented. There are very specific reasons why surface
rail which is a good solution in Dallas is not a good
solution for Austin. For one thing, Dallas has lots of
freeways for it to run along, Austin doesn't. Freeways
settle the inter modal conflict argument in a simple
fashion: there is no intermodal conflict, the freeway is
king. And when 2 of these behemoths cross paths, they're
grade separated in order to avoid 10,000 or more traffic
fatalities per hour. Hmmm, grade separation: what a
concept!
-
- A few quick additional comments:
-
- 1. The idea that the issue of monorail was settled
in 1975 is laughable, to say the least. Imagine
someone telling you "we considered implementing PC's in
place of typewriters in 1975, and decided it was a bad
idea so there's no reason to revisit this issue now."
We're better off pretending this statement was never
made. If ROAD finds out about it, the rail referendum
will already be over - no need to spend any more time and
energy on a lost cause.
-
- 2. The idea that surface rail without the benefit
of grade separation traveling on Lamar and Guadalupe will
be able to average 21 mph is absurd. I have no idea
what Capital Metro claimed they could do, but I'd like to
see an example of an actual urban trolley system that
achieves anywhere near these numbers.
-
- 3. LH wisely chose not to coment on the enormous
amount of right of way (non-existent, for example, on
Guadalupe) which will need to be acquired in order to
implement surface rail. There are reasons why
monorail is a superior solution; this is one of the big
ones.
-
- 4. The Las Vegas monorail system has become the
rallying cry of light rail romanticists all over the
country. 171 million dollars per mile! "That's how
much monorail costs" they trumpet gleefully (while losing
rail referendum elections time and time again; but hey,
they enjoy being the underdogs). Give me a break. Has
anyone ever been to Las Vegas? This is the city where
they build artificial volcanoes with actual eruptions,
miniaturized replications of Paris, and gigantic water
parks in the middle of the desert. The electricity bill
for flashing light bulbs for one week in Vegas would pay
for an entire monorail system for Austin. Obviously it's
POSSIBLE to spend an almost infinite amount of money on
anything. It's much more challenging (and requires a
little more thought, planning, and creativity) to get the
best value for your money. I've briefly touched upon
things that could be done to make monorail an extremely
cost effective solution (in-house local rail fabrication,
for example), options which are simply not available for
surface rail, since all the construction must be done in
situ (it's a big word, Fred, look it up).
-
- 5. Having stations 1 mile apart (outside of the
immediate downtown area) is EXACTLY what one wants for a
high speed backbone system. If we're talking about
implementing a rail system which more or less duplicates
what the #1 bus does (i.e. travel on the road and stop
frequently) but on a steel rail rather than on rubber,
then what's the point? Why spend a billion dollars to get
bus on a rail?
-
- 6. The issue of storing monorail trains is almost
certainly a red herring, but admittedly an issue that I
hadn't thought about. Of course one must store light
rail vehicles, too, and the surface area required to
store larger light rail vehicles is probably greater
(which is why this is probably a red herring).
-
- 7. Once again, the issue of popular support is
treated as completely unimportant. Need I remind everyone
YET AGAIN that rail must pass by public referendum before
it can be implemented? Surveys indicate time and time
again that monorail enjoys tremendous popular support. As
Tom Hopkins pointed out, 80% pro in conservative Colorado
(with similar results available in, for example, Los
Angeles - see www.monorails.org for more
information).
-
- 8. In the process of typing this brief response, I
just learned that LH's comments make perfect sense to
Fred Meredith. No point in wasting more electrons on a
detailed response, since this more less makes my point
for me, generally speaking.
-
CON
by NAWDRY@aol,
9-21-01
-
- Patrick's post makes a number of points which merit
some response.
-
- 1. The idea that the issue of
monorail was settled in 1975 is laughable, to say the
least. Imagine someone telling you "we considered
implementing PC's in place of typewriters in 1975, and
decided it was a bad idea so there's no reason to revisit
this issue now." We're better off pretending this
statement was never made. If ROAD finds out about it, the
rail referendum will already be over - no need to spend
any more time and energy on a lost cause.
-
- Monorail was first evaluated and rejected in the
1970s in the course of the Alternative Futures project of
the Austin Transportation Study, which recommended that
more detailed evaluation proceed focused on light rail
transit (LRT) and a busway system. Monorail systems have
been repeatedly reviewed since then, but there has been
no major new development in the technology which has
persuaded Capital Metro's planners, engineers, and
decisionmakers to depart from their original assessment.
However, a monorail system is being given careful review
once again in the current Rapid Transit study
process.
-
- 2. The idea that surface rail
without the benefit of grade separation traveling on
Lamar and Guadalupe will be able to average 21 mph is
absurd. I have no idea what Capital Metro claimed they
could do, but I'd like to see an example of an actual
urban trolley system that achieves anywhere near these
numbers.
-
- I don't have handy a breakdown of LRT average speeds
in similar street alignments. The average projected for
LRT in the Lamar-Guadalupe corridor and into downtown
(8th St.) was about 18 mph. This assumed maximum speeds
of 25 to 35 mph, average station dwells of 20-25 sec, and
an average 32 seconds of total delay from cross-street
traffic (probably mostly from hitting red traffic signals
out of the prioritization envelope).
-
- 3. LH wisely chose not to
coment on the enormous amount of right of way
(non-existent, for example, on Guadalupe) which will need
to be acquired in order to implement surface rail. There
are reasons why monorail is a superior solution; this is
one of the big ones.
-
- Some right-of-way (ROW) would need to be acquired for
widening Lamar and Guadalupe, both for LRT and for
sidewalks. The result would be a more pedestrian-friendly
and bicycle-friendly thoroughfare. There is an emerging
philosophy that inner cities should no longer be sliced
by motor vehicle corridors simply designed to facilitate
the fastest movement of vehicles; LRT would therefore
have somewhat of a "traffic calming" effect which would
also facilitate the safe movement of pedestrians and
cyclists.
-
- A design goal for the corridor however has been to
maintain the existing lane capacity as well as to install
LRT. Some of the additional ROW would come from the
current median turning lane and from one or both sides of
the street.
-
- A monorail or other elevated line would pose its own
ROW needs ~ mainly space for support pillars down the
center of the thoroughfare and additional space for
station supports and access facilities (elevators,
escalators, stairways) on both sides of Lamar and
Guadalupe. Except for station locations, ROW requirements
of an elevated alignment would probably be somewhat less
that those for surface LRT.
-
- 4. The Las Vegas monorail
system has become the rallying cry of light rail
romanticists all over the country. 171 million dollars
per mile! "That's how much monorail costs" they trumpet
gleefully (while losing rail referendum elections time
and time again; but hey, they enjoy being the underdogs).
Give me a break. Has anyone ever been to Las Vegas? This
is the city where they build artificial volcanoes with
actual eruptions, miniaturized replications of Paris, and
gigantic water parks in the middle of the desert. The
electricity bill for flashing light bulbs for one week in
Vegas would pay for an entire monorail system for
Austin.
-
- Las Vegas provides the first opportunity to obtain
actual, real-world costs for a high-capacity, public
transit monorail line in an inner-city urban setting. The
private consortium funding the project hopes to make a
profit, intending to charge a $2.50 fare, so it's
unlikely they're wasting money, paying for unnecessary
extravagances, and neglecting their bottom line. This
line is being build on a straight, flat alignment in the
heart of downtown Las Vegas. Currently, its costs
represent the best actual costs available to date to
compare to those of LRT projects.
-
- 5. Having stations 1 mile apart
(outside of the immediate downtown area) is EXACTLY what
one wants for a high speed backbone system. If we're
talking about implementing a rail system which more or
less duplicates what the #1 bus does (i.e. travel on the
road and stop frequently) but on a steel rail rather than
on rubber, then what's the point? Why spend a billion
dollars to get bus on a rail?
-
- Now Patrick is talking about having 1-mile station
spacing only "outside of the immediate downtown area".
Reducing the station spacing for Austin's Core Area
(UT-CBD) would reduce the operating speed for the
monorail operation Patrick proposals.
-
- If we consider LRT only "outside of the immediate
downtown area" ~ Howard to 24th St. ~ the average speed
becomes 25 mph and average station spacing is 1.0 mile.
Thus, with comparable station spacing, Patrick's assumed
higher speed (70 mph) with full grade separation yields a
3 mph average speed advantage.
-
- 6. The issue of storing
monorail trains is almost certainly a red herring, but
admittedly an issue that I hadn't thought about. Of
course one must store light rail vehicles, too, and the
surface area required to store larger light rail vehicles
is probably greater (which is why this is probably a red
herring).
-
- Widths of light rail cars and monorail vehicles are
about the same ~ about 8.5 ft. Providing storage and
service tracks for LRT is considerably easier and less
costly than providing comparable monorail beams. Access
by personnel is easier for LRT, since they can simply
walk across the tracks; in contrast, monorail beams would
either have to be elevated to permit access beneath or
other means of access would have to be provided. In
addition, as mentioned in another posting, numerous
switches are needed in such facilities; these are far
less cumbersome and costly for LRT.
-
- 7. Once again, the issue of
popular support is treated as completely unimportant.
Need I remind everyone YET AGAIN that rail must pass by
public referendum before it can be implemented? Surveys
indicate time and time again that monorail enjoys
tremendous popular support.
-
- Whether Austin voters would be willing to pay for
about 1/5 as much transit system for the money, possibly
getting less ridership and less contribution to total
travel, is a political issue which I will leave to others
to debate.
-
- Patrick also argues that the Dallas LRT system is a
success because it's routed along freeways:
-
- There are very specific reasons
why surface rail which is a good solution in Dallas is
not a good solution for Austin. For one thing, Dallas has
lots of freeways for it to run along, Austin doesn't.
Freeways settle the inter modal conflict argument in a
simple fashion: there is no intermodal conflict, the
freeway is king. And when 2 of these behemoths cross
paths, they're grade separated in order to avoid 10,000
or more traffic fatalities per hour. Hmmm, grade
separation: what a concept!
-
- DART's LRT follows the North Central freeway for only
part of its total route and, except for the tunnel from
the edge of downtown to Mockingbird, is grade-separated
only in certain portions. Much of it is routed in a
surface railway corridor which has numerous grade
crossings protected by crossing gates.
-
- I want to emphasize that, as we evaluate LRT,
monorail, PRT, BRT, and other alternatives, it's crticial
that we be sure we're dealing with hard, reliable,
factual information as much as possible. Informed
decisions are made with sound facts, not unfounded or
questionable claims and emotional exaggerations.
CON
by Mike
Dahmus,
9-20-01
It is very easy to realize that there is absolutely
nothing we can learn from Disney World or Las Vegas which
can be put into practice for daily mass transit, given the
following:
1. People are willing to spend $5, $10, or even more
for a trip while on vacation, while spending even $5 every
day to get to and from work is out of the question.
Therefore, the claims that Las Vegas can build a
monorail which is financially self-supporting, EVEN IF TRUE,
are completely irrelevant. I can easily see spending ten or
even twenty bucks to go on a ride from one casino to
another; I sure as hell can't see doing it to get to
work.
2. People are willing to wait in line for quite a
while and take a nice ride while on vacation, even if slow,
while doing it every day to get to work is out of the
question. I can see waiting for 20 minutes for the
monorail ride (and in fact have done it at Disney World),
but those headways are unacceptable when going to work.
3. People are willing to use a monorail system which
has stops exactly where they are staying and exactly where
they are going. This is very easy to do in Las Vegas and
at Disney World. It is very hard to do in the real
world.
4. People are 100% willing to use a monorail when
there are no alternatives. This makes Disney's monorail
look great; GOLLY GEE **EVERYBODY** USES IT! We'll see how
well Las Vegas does, however, applicability of that example
will be likewise limited since driving your car from hotel
to casino in Las Vegas is doubtlessly much more difficult
than most peoples' Austin work commutes.
- As for speed, light rail isn't exactly pokey.
Take San Jose's rail system (please!) - here's a
map
which indicates speeds on various parts of the
line
-
- Notice the configuration is very similar to the
system proposed for Austin, as well as the systems on the
ground in Portland and Dallas: in the downtown area, a
set of 1-way tracks; a long stretch on more suburban-type
streets where the rail runs where the median would be;
and then a grade-separated portion in the true suburban
areas. There's actually no difference between running in
a freeway median and running in a grade-separated
facility like the one which goes up to Leander, after
all, except that the stations will be easier to build and
get to for people in the surrounding neighborhoods.
-
- Note the parallels: speeds up to 55mph in the
outlying areas where stations are pretty far between and
ROW is totally separated (Cap Metro had this in their
plan); speeds around 15-25mph on the urban but not
high-density stretches (on-street on 1st St. mostly in
San Jose; a good analogue to Lamar and Guadalupe here);
very slow in the urban core where it splits into two
tracks on the one-way street grid (just like us in the
downtown area).
-
-
CON
by NAWDRY@aol,
9-20-01
- Additional commentary on several more assertions made
by Patrick Goetz in his promotion of a monorail system
for Austin.
-
- 1. "One prominent light rail
advocate recently mentioned that he's been advocating
light rail in Austin for 26 years. That's 26 years of no
rail on the ground and a lot of blab."
-
- The "blab" has mainly come from politicians and
community leaders in past years who continually referred
to "future light rail" without ever taking steps to
actually do anything. It's furthermore come from a
wide variety of community leaders, activists, etc. who
have argued and argued over what should be done, often
suddenly presenting their own alternative proposals
without ever having any involvement in the planning
process and familiarity with the real issues involved.
It's also come from plenty of people afraid of any change
whatsoever and therefore opposed to anything which might
impact anything, especially near them, in any way. The
net result has been decisionmaking gridlock. Some of us
have witnessed this over more than two and a half
decades.
-
- 2. "As previously mentioned,
one of the benefits of monorail is that the actual rails
can be pre-manufactured off site and simply placed on the
support pillars. One way of cutting costs would be to
have the actual rails manufactured locally, perhaps even
by Capital Metro! In any case, it should be clear that
the price of a monorail system can be competitive with
the cost of deploying surface rail, and perhaps even
cheaper."
-
- Monorail systems do not have some kind of monopoly
of prefabricated construction. Standard steel, 2-rail
technology also extensively uses prefab techniqes.
The ribbon rail is prefab, as are the concrete crossties
(sleepers), as well as the beams, slabs, bents, etc. on
which these would rest on an elevated structure. The
rails are quickly fastened to the crossties with highly
automated machines. Anyone can see this in process by
visiting Dallas and examining the construction of DART's
new LRT branches to Plano and Garland.
-
- There would be no need for Capital Metro to get into
rail manufacture ~ there are plenty of suppliers who
provide steel rails and other standard hardware items
efficiently and at extremely competitive costs.
-
- 3. "A valid point is that
monorail stations will be more expensive to build because
they are elevated. On the other hand, they can be built
over the roadway, reducing the amount of right of way
which will need to be acquired along Lamar and Congress.
One way of mitigating these costs is by including rental
space for fast food and commercial vendors in the station
design. In the final analysis, the expense of elevating
the station should not be prohibitive, particular in
light of the reduced cost of land
acquisition."
-
- Including rental space for commercial use rentals
is not a bad idea, but it increases spatial and
structural requirements and thus construction cost.
Elevated construction might save a bit in land
acqusition, but there are still substantial ROW costs,
expecially for stations and access facilities from the
street margins as well as for roadway expansion to
accommodate placement of support pillars. (This
usually requires substantial utility relocations and
substrata stabilization as well.) Increased construction
costs typically are far in excess over the ROW acqusition
savings
PRO
by Patrick
Goetz,
9-20-01
D'Amico wrote:
- > systems. I'm not trying to
be an ass, but it seems
- > like you spent some time
browsing monorail website and
- > now your'e a devotee
without ever experiencing the
- > real questions involved
(mainly cost).
Well, I haven't actually built my own monorail system,
but I have had some discussions with engineers who work on
transportation systems. The Disney system, for example,
includes 2 miles or so of track, 2 elevated stations, and 2
trains and cost about 20 million to build (and has
successfully transported over 2 billion passengers). Given
the economies of scale, it would certainly seem like one
should be able to match these numbers with a little
prudence. It is very, very hard to pin down costs on these
systems. This has been a active topic of discussion on the
monorail list many, many times, and I've seen several cost
analyses produced by transportation engineers trying
mightily to put together a pick and choose spreadsheet
allowing one to estimate total cost.
The point that monorail systems are largely proprietary
is another red herring. Recently Disney went to replace
their trains and had no problem finding vendors who made
trains that worked on their existing tracks.
The fact that this is a point of contention even amongst
experts should be some indication that there is no clear
answer to this question. If you don't have to buy right of
way and/or displace traffic, then surface rail is probably
cheaper. Trying to install a surface rail line down 5th Ave
in Manhatten, however, would cost about 2 billion dollars
per mile (at least). Austin falls somewhere in the middle.
Which system really costs more on a given route in Austin? I
don't really know and doubt anyone else does at this moment,
either.
Is this really the main issue, though? So what if we
spend an extra 10 million clams per mile. Just the city of
Austin's budget this year is almost 2 billion dollars. For a
20 mile system, this only represents 10% of 1 year's budget,
and over the course of 10 or 20 years this is an
insignificant pittance. The important thing is to get a good
system that people will want to use and a proposal that
people will vote for in the first place.
The property tax revenues from the increased density
along the rail route will more than make up for a million
here or a million there. Just one of the proposed stations
in Dallas has already generated a billion dollars worth of
speculative real estate development around the station - a
station which hasn't even been built yet! But again, this is
yet another reason to put the rail line along an existing
commercial corridor such as Lamar. Try to run it through
Crestview again, and watch those people scream bloody murder
yet again. Why watch reruns of really bad movies?
- > But one question I have
that's more list
- > relevant...and I also
don't have a clue about....What
- > is monorail's track record
regarding bikes? Are they
- > allowed on any of the
systems that are public?
Everyone I've asked has said not a problem. If the system
gets really popular, we will have problems during rush hour,
of course, but that would be a rather pleasant complication
to have to find a solution to.
- > Finally, I have to get in
a dig, since you did on big
- > bad Fred. I notice you
like to repeat the ROAD mantra
- > quite often. You been
hanging out with Skaggs in his
- > Navigator or
something?
Why on earth let those guys win another election without
even liftng a finger? I want to make sure that "costs too
much, does too little" is in NO WAY a factor next November.
The last rail referendum was characterized by a bunch of
light rail fan club members patting each other on the back
and having little parties to tell each other how great light
rail is. I know, I was there. Meanwhile the ROAD guys were
taking it to the street. End result? A system which is
already funded, in the most traffic congested mid-sized city
in the country got voted down. Mayor Watson shaking Gerald
Daugherty's hand like he's some kind of prince who saved the
city from certain doom.
I don't mean to be an ass, but do you enjoy getting your
ass kicked in elections? I don't, and don't intend to see it
happen again next November. When I listen to those light
rail guys speaking at the Rapid Transit Area team meetings,
they sound whipped already. Like, they know this isn't going
to pass, but it's their responsibility to do the right thing
anyway. Everyone is out to get them. *sigh* Life sucks and
then you die. *sigh* Oh well, better get up and talk the
talk again. *sigh*
Fuck that, I want to see a better public transportation
with higher density land use along the rapid transit lines
and the whole banana, and not diddled out over 20 years.
That means pushing the envelope a little, not pushing the
same old tired ideas which have been considered and rejected
for over 25 years now.
Sorry if my interest in seeing something actually happen
is offending some people's tender sensibilities.
CON
by Loren,
9-20-01
Not to undermine the seriousness of the discussion, ya'll
want my gut instinct O-pinyon? A monorail would be keen cool
neat-0! But speaking as a normal voter named Joe (or Jill,
depending on the moon phase), I think Austin is a little too
backwards in too many areas to spend 40 bajillion of my
property tax on a novelty act.
Defeats of past plans say I ain't alone. I can see
Dallas, or Vegas or Seattle dolling up with some
hi-teckidness mass-tran, but I'm still stuck on that huge
architects' drawing of the new convention center on Barton
Springs and 1st depicting a beautiful airbrushed complex
when it's obviously an already constructed plain old
prehistoric concrete parking garage. (An example of how they
shove a fancy picture down our throat while the wallet is
being lifted.) Now I am being presented with shiny hi-speed
Japanese style Disneylandesque Monorail, when reality will
be smoking diesel, runaway mine trains, flattened dogs,
rumbling smoke stained apartment complexes and debt for the
homeowners all the way back to 2045.
Neutral by
Roger
Baker,
9-21-01
I tried to find good links comparing monorail with light
rail, but didn't come up with much. The monorail sites tend
to seem pretty biased in favor of monorail, but not very
scholarly in their comparison. Sydney Australia has both, by
the way.
It seems that you can get higher capacity with light
rail. In congested areas you get higher speeds and less
capacity with monorail, which tends to be favored when you
have right-of-way constraints at the ground level. It
appears that the cost may be roughly comparable.
-
CON
by NAWDRY@aol,
9-24-01
- There would definitely be objections from the public
at large in regard to any elevated system -- monorail,
PRT, LRT, or any other mode -- especially in regard to
elevated structures through the central area, past UT,
past the Capitol, through downtown, etc. The point is
that all of these alignment choices (surface, elevated,
subway, etc.) have pros and cons. So far, a totally
grade-separated system has been presented by its
promoters as a kind of panacea, but I believe it's
important to recognize that there are serious
disadvantages as well.
-
- What I want to address in this commentary is the
issue of routing light rail transit (LRT) ~ or any
higher-capacity, higher-quality transit ~ in surface
streets or thoroughfares. What has emerged over the past
few months is a sort of coalition of opposition to this
concept, some of it of course coming from staunch rail
opponents (mainly the ROAD zealots) but also proponents
of a subway, monorail, or PRT alternative. These
disparate factions seem united on the notion that streets
are for motor vehicles, and you don't want to
inconvenience motorists or reduce traffic capacity or
speed, no matter what. This notion is repeatedly
expressed, for example, on the monorails.org website,
leading one to wonder what these proponents think of
reserved bus lanes.
-
- Basically, I see a number of reasons for leaving
open ~ and vigorously supporting ~ the option of using
appropriate surface thoroughfares for LRT (or other
transit, for that matter).
-
- (1) Streets follow established traffic patterns
and can provide relatively lower-cost, available
rights-of-way.
-
- (2) Surface-level LRT routes tend to be more
"user-friendly" and accessible (passengers don't have to
climb to a different level ~ and think of having to
constantly climb or ride up and down carrying a
bike). Also, they can be more closely spaced, thus
reducing access time compared with grade-separated
alternatives.
-
- (3) Stations can be constructed far less
expensively, and thus more can be provided on the route
within an available budget.
-
- (4) The visual obtrusion of an elevated structure
is eliminated ~ the thoroughfare has much of its
previous "streetscape" appearance, albeit typically
"improved" with landscaping, better pedestrian
facilities, etc., and with of course the obtrusion of an
overhead contact system (OCS ~ simple trolley wire or
more elaborate catenary).
-
- (5) LRT surface riders get to see the street
they're travelling on, storefronts, etc. On an
elevated system they see the tops of buildings; in a
subway, they see nothing.
-
- (6) LRT in a thoroughfare typically has an
important "traffic-calming" effect, helping to turn
the thoroughfare away from simply a fast corridor for
motor vehicles slicing through the city, and more into a
neighborhood-friendly, pedestrian-friendly, bike-friendly
mobility corridor.
-
- Those are some major advantages of routing surface
LRT in available thoroughfares. Obviously, there are
disadvantages, and obviously, too, subway and elevated
systems have their own advantages. But this aspect of LRT
has been ignored in the ongoing discussion, and I think
it's important to emphasize it.
-
- I am particularly concerned that there is such
vehement objection to routing LRT in thoroughfares,
especially from some individuals ~ like Patrick Goetz ~
who are strong supporters of mass transit, pedestrian
mobility, alternative transportation, better urban
design, and other good things. I believe this position is
ultimately untenable, and at odds with the thrust of
modern mobility planning, which now places far more
emphasis on the PERSON-moving capability of a street or
road corridor rather than its VEHICLE-moving capability.
Do this, and it makes more and more sense to find ways to
fit high-quality (e.g., faster), higher-capacity transit
systems into the street right-of-way (ROW). Whatever
Patrick may gain to make his case for monorail now, he is
damaging the effort to introduce this important concept
and these essential improvements to urban mobility and
livability.
-
- Surface LRT, much of it routed in public
thoroughfares, is widespread elsewhere in the world,
especially in Europe and Japan. While American cities
were ripping out their surface electric trolley lines ~
both urban streetcars and fast interurban systems ~
countries like Germany, especially after World War 2,
expanded and modernized these systems tremendously, to a
point that they are now highly integral and critical
components of an enviable mobility system. Surface LRT
trains blithely coast by cars in city after city of
Europe, then they glide thorough downtown streets, past
pedestrians on wide sidewalks, past patrons in outdoor
restaurants and cafes, sitting just a few meters away
from the tracks.
-
- LRT is favored in part because it enables PENETRATION
of many more urban precincts ~ residential neighborhoods,
commercial areas, etc. ~ with higher-quality transit,
thus expanding system spread. Certainly, some of the
largest cities, like Berlin, Hamburg, Munich, Stockholm,
Paris, London ~ have subway and/or elevated systems. But
many more cities have LRT, and it is being vigorously
expanded ~ even in most of the cities with "heavy",
grade-separated rapid transit, In fact, Stockholm, Paris,
and London, despite their famous subway systems, have
each begun introducing surface street-routed LRT back
into their urban mobility cityscapes. That should tell
you something about the real value of LRT.
-
- As I've noted in previous posts to this list, LRT
routed (in part) in street ROW is working extremely
successfully in a wide variety of North American cities ~
those that immediately come to mind include San Diego,
San Jose, San Francisco, Sacramento, Portland, Salt Lake
City, Denver, Dallas, Cleveland, Philadelphia, Boston,
Buffalo, Baltimore, Toronto, and Calgary. Houston, of
course, is currently constructing its first LRT line
smack down the middle of Main St., for 7.5 miles ~ a
project it seems unlikely they would have undertaken to
implement if street-routed LRT were truly the disastrous
idea portrayed by opponents.
-
- What I think is emerging is a richer multi-modal
concept of mass transit: local buses on most major
streets; streetcars (as in Portland) and limited-stop
buses on some major streets; LRT (a modern variant of the
interurban railway) on exclusive ROW and some major
streets; express buses and/or regional passenger rail
("commuter rail") for regional connection to city
centers. Especially within this context, I think it's a
serious mistake to muster opposition to reserving ROW in
public thoroughfares for higher-quality transit, be it
streetcars/LRT, or some level of bus service.
-
- Obviously, it's not easy to "sell" the concept of
reserving street ROW for transit to a public so
overwhelmingly dependent on going everywhere in
automobiles. Pro-automobile zealots favoring more
roadways and more privileges for motor vehicles have a
distinct advantage, and have clearly mounted a campaign
to foster opposition to the diversion of any street space
to public transit. However, well-meaning transit
supporters, endeavoring to promote their particular
variants of grade-separated alternatives by playing to
such attitudes, are not, in my opinion, doing a service
to mass transit in the longer term.
-
- As all those cities with successful LRT demonstrate,
street-routed LRT can indeed work extremely well. Modern,
efficient traffic-management techniques can come close to
totally eliminating conflicts with motor vehicle traffic
while expediting transit movement. It can even provide
average speeds reasonably competitive with
grade-separated alternatives and with automobile travel.
These facts, and the arguments for this basic concept,
must be brought to the Austin public if this option for
rapid transit is going to be fairly evaluated.
|