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#1 2010-07-20 14:39:38

guerrilaBiking
Member
Registered: 2010-07-20
Posts: 1

stop signs @ LAB

Tired of waiting for the city to take away the stop signs from the LAB?
Do you want to help removing them?
Meet at the Pfluger Bridge, Thursday 22 at 8 pm

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#2 2010-07-21 00:24:19

dougmc
Administrator
Registered: 2008-06-01
Posts: 553

Re: stop signs @ LAB

If I understand what you're proposing, wouldn't it be better to wait until after midnight?

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#3 2010-07-21 09:37:11

plarson
Member
Registered: 2008-05-27
Posts: 42

Re: stop signs @ LAB

Lab?

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#4 2010-07-21 09:57:57

MichaelBluejay
Webmaster
From: Austin, TX
Registered: 2008-05-26
Posts: 1,207
Website

Re: stop signs @ LAB

First of all, for the record, Bicycle Austin doesn't support the illegal removal of stop signs, and strongly opposes it.

Also, I'm not sure exactly which signs you're talking about removing, but removing stop signs is probably dangerous.  Many people have died when vandals or pranksters removed stop signs, for example:

Three defendants were sentenced to 15 years each in state prison Friday for uprooting a stop sign at an intersection where three teen-agers were killed in a crash a few hours later.

http://edition.cnn.com/US/9706/20/stop.sign/index.html

In another Illinois case, unknown vandals removed a stop sign from an intersection. A county employee notified the city street supervisor by leaving a message on his cell phone and a note in his mail box, because it was after hours. Less than three hours later, two vehicles collided at the intersection, causing injuries to eight people and property damage to both vehicles and a house.

http://www.iml.org/page.cfm?key=4612&parent=1629

I'm sure you could find many more with just a few more minutes with Google or Bing.

Certainly there have to be more productive ways for you to support bicycling in Austin.

BTW, plarson, LAB = Lance Armstrong Bikeway.

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#5 2010-07-21 10:01:16

cycling74
Member
Registered: 2008-09-28
Posts: 61

Re: stop signs @ LAB

Ironic, I'm about to post a story that will hopefully lead to TWO NEW STOP SIGNS on LAB right in front of the YMCA. A girl was hit by a car this morning, bloodied leg, screaming, etc.

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#6 2010-07-21 10:39:07

plarson
Member
Registered: 2008-05-27
Posts: 42

Re: stop signs @ LAB

oh, my bad. I should have known that! Thanks M. Yeah don't remove stop signs. Blow them if you want to, but it's your ass you're risking, not everyone else's.

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#7 2010-07-21 10:50:46

damicoaustin
Member
From: Austin, TX
Registered: 2008-05-27
Posts: 143
Website

Re: stop signs @ LAB

Lance Armstrong Bikeway: Bicycle Advisory Council may have some perspective on this...I know the city had some ideas for making those crossings safer, but wasn't involved in the discussions. But why would you remove the signs anyway? What's the alternative? While you're at it, why don't you do something more productive, like paint over the bike lanes in the door zone or construct a map and signage that actually lets people know they are on the LAB.

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#8 2010-07-21 10:57:02

bizikletari
Member
Registered: 2009-03-18
Posts: 223

Re: stop signs @ LAB

It would be silly to organize a sign removal during daylight; not to mention the illegality of doing it. But I see your point, there are zillions of stopsigns located at driveways, parking lots and along with streetlights! You get a green light and a stopsign at the same time!
A better approach could be to join the many bike advocacy groups in Austin. You could even come to the BAC (Bicycle Advisory Council, meeting every third Thursday of the month at the One Texas Center, 8th floor, 6:30pm) and join us to promote sensible bike facilities in Austin.

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#9 2010-07-21 11:10:21

bizikletari
Member
Registered: 2009-03-18
Posts: 223

Re: stop signs @ LAB

damicoaustin wrote:

… or construct a map and signage that actually lets people know they are on the LAB…

That would be like placing Forbidden to Ride a Bicycle signs in those sidewalks where it is illegal to do so. For some reason CoA and APD think it's better to guess, or maybe knowing where you can or you can't is part of being a True Austinite.

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#10 2010-07-21 15:37:43

NadiaB
Member
Registered: 2009-06-11
Posts: 68

Re: stop signs @ LAB

The City of Austin Bicycle Program has been working, with the help of the Bicycle Advisory Council, to improve the crossings of the Lance Armstrong Bikeway at BR Reynolds and Sandra Muraida and to change those STOP signs that don't make sense (at driveways and roadways that are not complete) to YIELD signs.

Unfortunately, the size of the signs are not standard and had to be specially ordered.  They will be here next week. 

To address the concerns of this forum, the sign crew will install regular sized YIELD signs tomorrow morning and will subsequently go out to replace those once the smaller signs have arrived.

To learn more about proposed changes to the intersections and other developments in cycling infrastructure, policies, and programs, please consider attending a BAC meeting.  As Alosno mentioned, they are held every third Thursday of the month at the One Texas Center (505 Barton Springs Road), 8th floor, 6:30pm.  These meetings are open to the public.  Next month we will be hearing a report from our new APD liaison as well as conducting a bike/transit workshop to learn more about how CapMetro can make it easier for cyclists to use transit.

Thank you for riding your bicycle in Austin.  Please do not hesitate to contact the Bicycle Program with any additional questions or concerns.

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#11 2010-07-21 17:29:02

doughead
Member
Registered: 2008-05-27
Posts: 37

Re: stop signs @ LAB

It is a very good idea to stop at the LAB intersections with BR Reynolds and Sandra Muraida, they are dangerous intersections and demand a lot of paying attention. I ride these intersections several times a week. Do you really think that bicycles should never have to stop for oncoming traffic or to check their position with existing traffic potential?

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#12 2010-07-21 17:47:27

dougmc
Administrator
Registered: 2008-06-01
Posts: 553

Re: stop signs @ LAB

Nice, Nadia!

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#13 2010-07-22 09:21:30

bizikletari
Member
Registered: 2009-03-18
Posts: 223

Re: stop signs @ LAB

Changing the signs to YIELD is a step in the right direction, Nadia. Thanks for moving forward with this issue.

Nonetheless, consider this: which vehicles are supposed to yield to other vehicles coming out from a parking lot or a driveway or turning at an intersection? It seems to me that the yielding vehicles should be those that are actually coming out from a parking lot or a driveway or turning at an intersection.

Regarding to the signs in combination with streetlights, I would say that placing a STOP or a YIELD sign there would be a mistake. It would create a contradictory statement, the green light says GO and the sign would say STOP or YIELD. No other vehicles are subject to a schizoid message as that one.

In intersections it is a sensible practice to have either a sign or a streetlight. Both traffic devices together is a sure recipe for disaster; and we already have a victim; let's not keep adding numbers.

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#14 2010-07-22 10:59:27

damicoaustin
Member
From: Austin, TX
Registered: 2008-05-27
Posts: 143
Website

Re: stop signs @ LAB

I agree with Alonso that yield/stop signs are a contradictory statement. Are there any other suggestions for allowed signage that would alert bicyclists that they are supposed to do what common sense should tell them--that regardless of whether they have the right of way, they need to look for cars turning through the intersection. Even with "no right turn" or "left on arrow" only signs, you're still going to have cars doing it. Bicyclists need to be aware that they'll have to slow their pace significantly going trough the intersection.

While in Seattle a couple weeks ago, I was really impressed with the Burke-Gilman Trail, because they obviously just did what had to be done to make this trail work...sometimes even going up on sidewalks with pavement markings and a lot of strange crossings, passages through industrial sites sided with chain link fences, narrow passes etc. Check out street views along this map: http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/b … ilmaps.htm 
There's a bunch of history on this from the cycling community about the mish mash and dangerous stretches. For an educated and aware bicyclist it works wonderfully. The thing here is to remember that not everyone is going to be so aware, so how do we protect them aside from encouraging education.

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#15 2010-07-27 14:18:54

m1ek
Member
Registered: 2008-06-02
Posts: 153

Re: stop signs @ LAB

Haven't been here in a long time - this is going to be one of my usual I Told You Sos.

Remember way back in the day - when this thing was first proposed - and everybody was sure it wouldn't be full of yield and stop signs; that it'd somehow get enough magic right-of-way to be just as good as riding in the lane on 5th or 6th (where you might have to stop at a red light but it'll always eventually turn green)?

Yeah, I remember.

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#16 2010-07-27 15:42:42

bizikletari
Member
Registered: 2009-03-18
Posts: 223

Re: stop signs @ LAB

Well, the city did change the signs to YIELD instead of the STOP ones; there is a better flow now. Not yet as it should be; but I guess we should thank the car gods to allow us to cross a driveway without legally having to stop, only to yield when they want to cross the bike space. Bend, yield and thank, that is.

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