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#51 2013-08-20 07:05:33

m1ek
Member
Registered: 2008-06-02
Posts: 153

Re: Red alert on the Drag

Murf, did you miss this quote:

Having to go to the BAC to get a logical argument heard, if that even works, is not the solution. It's the problem.

I'm damn well not taking scarce family time to go to this when I don't even ride any more. Y'all should care about this a lot more than I do.

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#52 2013-08-22 01:52:50

AusTexMurf
Member
From: South Austin
Registered: 2008-11-21
Posts: 439

Re: Red alert on the Drag

m1ek wrote:

Murf, did you miss this quote:

Having to go to the BAC to get a logical argument heard, if that even works, is not the solution. It's the problem.

I'm damn well not taking scarce family time to go to this when I don't even ride any more. Y'all should care about this a lot more than I do.


No. Didn't miss it. Don't agree with it, and don't think that it even applies......
Thing is, your concerns about the bike lane moving to the right of the MetroExpress stop were heard here and a large part of the focus/discussion at the BAC meeting yesterday eve. CapMetro did have a more or less general presentation on the MetroExpress routes/stops and their plan on how to handle auto and bicycle traffic in those lanes, particularly in the downtown area. Options, guidelines based on time of construction, and communication of/for construction projects and interruptions to bike facilities were discussed. Others voiced concerns about cars parking in the cycle track, possible pedestrian conflict, etc...
And N.Wilkes had a detailed presentation on the Drag/Guadalupe cycling facilities as well. Bike Austin and BAC chair had much input, too.
Improved markings, etc., to come. And other details to iron out in this area also, particularly related to the sidewalk and pedestrian areas. Guadalupe scheduled for Great Street makeover........more changes coming, but cycle track to stay put and continue w/ mods and improvements.
Overall, seems like greatly improved bicycle facilities on Guadalupe.

To summarize my point, thank you, m1ek, for playing your role and making transportation issues a priority in a place and time that definitely needs solutions.
Thank you for being our town crier, so to speak. For disturbing the comfortable.

Thanks to my wife, also a commuter/utility/recreational cyclist, who sent me to the meeting w/ a hall pass, made dinner for our kids, got everyone ready for bed, and then met me downtown for a late night dinner and full moon cruise. We have 4 children. Our teenager served as baby sitter later in the evening. Advocating for better/safer cycling infrastructure is definitely a concern for me as a parent, as all of our kids get around town by bike and hopefully will continue to do so. It is also an important issue to me as an educator in AISD, having taught and worked with our youth for much of the past 20 years. I don't see attending/participating in the BAC meeting as robbing me of scarce family time, rather investing in the future for my family and bicycling options for our community at large.

And thanks, M.Bluejay, for playing your role, creating/hosting bicycleaustin and the forum, making transportation issues a priority, and also disturbing the comfortable.
Kudos for creating an online network and sounding board where different views/opinions on cycling and its advocacy get bounced around.

Thank you to City of Austin bicycle program staff. They occur as nothing other than extraordinarily concerned, competent, devoted to cycling in austin, and making bicycling increasingly inviting, accessible, and safe to our community. City staff and the BAC also stated that they were bringing all cycle track/bike lane changes/construction/implementation to the BAC before construction, until if/when the BAC no longer deems necessary. Should help to avoid future surprises like the one on Guadalupe.

And I enjoyed an amazing August eve of cycling, on a flippin' tuesday into wednesday.
Nice ride down to BAC meeting at city hall. Lively, lengthy discussion.
Short ride to the east side w/ a few folks from the meeting.
Dinner with my wife, by bike.
And a wonderful Full Moon Cruise (first one I have ridden in more than 6 years) up to Loyola/290 area. Good turnout, beautiful moon, great temp, nice ride. Wife and I both loved the late night bike date.

Seems like we still have a pretty healthy cycling network and culture here. Not perfect, but what is ?
Thanks everyone for creating, living, socializing, advocating,
bicycling austin.

Last edited by AusTexMurf (2013-08-22 15:45:14)

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#53 2013-08-22 12:04:03

Augenwinkel
Member
Registered: 2010-02-05
Posts: 16

Re: Red alert on the Drag

FYI, the official response from the BAC reads thus:

"The BAC approves the current design for the Guadalupe cycle track and appreciates City staff's commitments to bring these types of projects to the BAC in the future and to handle detours more proactively."

To my understanding, bicycle program staff thought that the BAC did not need/want to weigh in on the cycle track since it's not an incredibly disruptive design. It's a one-way cycle track on only one side of the street, and of course they don't bring every bike lane in the city to the BAC before implementing. Having recognized their mistake, they've committed to bringing all cycle track designs to the BAC "until the BAC gets sick of them." After the discussion about the design, nearly everyone in the room agreed that it's a reasonable design.

The commitment to handle detours more proactively was a plus, since that was what started the conversation for me in the first place. This may be a conversation that needs to happen between city staff and consultants/contractors, to make sure contractors have a detailed enough plan for signs and detours. I'll be satisfied when all projects that affect cyclists have very well-thought-out detours, no matter the duration of construction or the speed limit on the street. But that's just me. :)

You can email bike program stafff if you have further input on the design, which can be viewed here: http://austintexas.gov/sites/default/fi … 3__Web.pdf

Allison

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#54 2013-08-23 08:28:20

m1ek
Member
Registered: 2008-06-02
Posts: 153

Re: Red alert on the Drag

Augenwinkel wrote:

To my understanding, bicycle program staff thought that the BAC did not need/want to weigh in on the cycle track since it's not an incredibly disruptive design.

This is a ridiculous framing. I hope you don't actually believe this. Even if you think this is a positive change, it's clearly a major change, not a minor striping issue.

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#55 2013-08-23 16:02:41

bizikletari
Member
Registered: 2009-03-18
Posts: 223

Re: Red alert on the Drag

I am happy I read this on a Friday at 4pm.
I'll be laughing until Monday.

a.

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#56 2013-08-23 16:10:33

dougmc
Administrator
Registered: 2008-06-01
Posts: 591

Re: Red alert on the Drag

m1ek wrote:

This is a ridiculous framing. I hope you don't actually believe this. Even if you think this is a positive change, it's clearly a major change, not a minor striping issue.

Hell, it's one of the most significant changes in Austin cycling infrastructure I can recall.  (I didn't say the most significant, just one of the most significant.)

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#57 2013-08-26 14:45:02

m1ek
Member
Registered: 2008-06-02
Posts: 153

Re: Red alert on the Drag

A blog I wish I had stumbled across a couple of weeks ago instead of today:

http://janheine.wordpress.com/2013/05/1 … -or-equal/

Makes the case damn well that protected bike lanes are a net safety decrease over 'normal' bike lanes, including pictures, and also explains Europe.

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#58 2013-08-26 16:14:11

Jack
Member
Registered: 2013-03-27
Posts: 329

Re: Red alert on the Drag

. . . a net safety decrease that has been well-demonstrated and well-documented _for_years_.  In Berlin, _in_the_1980's_, the city started removing the dangerous cycle tracks out of concern for cyclists' safety.  http://www.john-s-allen.com/research/be … index.html

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#59 2013-08-26 16:35:26

Jack
Member
Registered: 2013-03-27
Posts: 329

Re: Red alert on the Drag

Also see this illustration--similar to the plan for Guadalupe that condenses relative risks in keeping with other reading:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cycle … _risks.jpg

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#60 2013-08-27 11:07:45

m1ek
Member
Registered: 2008-06-02
Posts: 153

Re: Red alert on the Drag

This morning, I was driving southbound on Guadalupe near the bus stop in question at about 7:45 and was stopped by a red light. A bus a couple vehicles in front of me let out 6 passengers - I watched each walk down the ramp and cross the cycletrack without ever looking for bicyclists.

An hour later this morning, Jace Deloney recorded the following two vines (note: he's in favor of this facility). Does anybody see the problem with these two short clips?

https://vine.co/v/hi5JPJ2zqT7

https://vine.co/v/hi5HXIYX6Tt

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#61 2013-08-27 14:16:29

AusTexMurf
Member
From: South Austin
Registered: 2008-11-21
Posts: 439

Re: Red alert on the Drag

I think one obvious tool to try is the green paint/green lane idea and project.
Use lots of green paint w/ arrows to indicate cycle track, not just white lines. At all intersections and significant cross traffic.
Help to train motorists and pedestrians around dedicated cycling facilities ?
Helps mark and draw attention of novice and distracted cyclists to hazards of intersections of all types ?
How do the green lane project parameters apply to this facility and discussion ?
http://greenlaneproject.org


Flashing lights, paint, wordage, signage everywhere at these metro stops ? To get everyones' attention.....

Have an art installation with colored lights/disco balls/music/shakedown street/sculpture/mosaic  ART IN PUBLIC SPACES ???
So people slow down and get out of their own worlds for an important moment ?

Use pedestrian traffic signs or signals at the most frequently used stops and cycle track crossings ? Pedestrian crosswalk buttons ?


Yuck,
Have Yield to Pedestrian signs in the cycle track ?
Actually part of the design, as shown in Augenwinkle's post.

And, these intersection markings/tools/indicators improvements are needed not only here, but in other areas of the city where we are using separate cycle tracks, particularly the 2 ways in Zilker, Mueller, LAB, and downtown areas....
We need to continue to explore options and try new moves......or ones that are working in comparable US cities.......
2 way cycle tracks are everywhere in fl and co.
fl has state laws posted for motorists, from 1996, alerting them to cyclists/pedestrian rights in crosswalks/cycle tracks/dedicated facilities.
And local ordinances/signage/set back stop lines for motorists to stop behind cycle track and yield to cyclists in dedicated facilities.......something such..
Just rented bikes there this past summer and state laws and local ordinances for motorists around cycle tracks were posted quite clearly.
Sometimes cycle track had the right of way, with no stops, through T type intersections where all motor traffic stops.
Locals seemed to be trained and abide by them, mostly the driving tourists were the offenders.
Lack of experience with 2 way cycle track and bicycle rights/motorist responsibilities was the assumption I made....

My $.02

Other ideas ?

I still like having the choice of using the facility or the lane of traffic as conditions on the ground are subject to significant change.

One could also always shift to the west and parallel on rio grande or nueces.

And I run 420 lumens of bright, oftentimes strobing, white led up front, w/ sleigh bells and cat bells ringing passively, and a loud a$$ active bell, and wear bright colors 24 hours a day to announce my passing through traffic. And I still yield to pedestrians, the very best conditions allow, when they don't. Cyclists also have the right and responsibility to see, be seen, notice and be noticed, and pass through shared space and time safely. It is certainly in our best interest to do so. We did not choose 4K lb protective cages/battering rams to move our mAsses through our town.

And, we are going on and on about the drag here, but what about S lamar ???
What about the loss of cycling accessibility out MLK/969 ???
What about the bicycle ban on toll roads, austin and state wide ???
Lone Star Rail/CapMetro/CAMPMO Rail ???
I35 Cut and Cap/Reconnect Austin ???
Road diets throughout austin ???

Separate bicycle facilities that do not intersect with much other cross traffic of any kind......i.e., Rails To Trails, or Rails and Trails w/ some fed funds thrown in, along the bergstrom spur to provide dedicated bicycle facilities to the airport and F1 areas...
Boggy creek/walnut creek cycle track w/ dedicated bridge  across colorado to the airport from northside ?

Cycle tracks along the length of the Redline w/ bicycle routes/facilities from all stops ???

North/South separate facilities in center or side ROW of MoPac from 1826 to 183 ??

Development of Williamson Creek and Slaughter Creek trail systems to connect with Violet Crown all the way to I35 and beyond ???

Bike Buddy support ?
Bike Trains - serve as leads or tails for bike trains to/from neighborhood elementary and middle schools ???
Organizing neighborhood/city zone family friendly bike rides, partnering w/ local LBS's and businesses ?
Permanent cyclovias/bicycle boulevards.........starting w/ bike route 31/shoal creek-n to emerald forest-s ?

Other fish to fry as well, my friends......

Last edited by AusTexMurf (2013-08-28 16:06:29)

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#62 2013-08-27 16:38:22

Jack
Member
Registered: 2013-03-27
Posts: 329

Re: Red alert on the Drag

Interesting 2 cents, but all of those 'bells and whistles' added to the cycle track would be what, in sum?  Attempts to mitigate the problems created by setting up a cycle track to begin with, that is what.  And they won't fully mitigate them. 

If a bike lane is safer than a cycle track along a stretch like that, what is the purpose of building a cycle track instead?  If the purpose of the cycle track is not safe riding, is that a purpose worth pursuing?  Given that it is demonstrably twice as risky (though the risk is low in broad terms still), why would we want to attract less skilled riders (children, parents with kid trailers, newbie riders) to ride it?  And at what cost per user?  At what cost per extra accident?

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#63 2013-08-28 08:44:03

damicoaustin
Member
From: Austin, TX
Registered: 2008-05-27
Posts: 143
Website

Re: Red alert on the Drag

Mike, you're exaggerating the potential conflict. Didn't you see that one of the six transit peds in the foreground actually looked behind them into the cycletrack? (I couldn't tell with the ones farther back.)

Actually, thanks for being persistent on this. Those videos do illustrate the problem. I wonder if COA or Cap Metro is out with a video camera, or at least observing? I'd like to see some footage of a bike actually entering as the peds are exiting.

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#64 2013-08-28 08:53:47

AusTexMurf
Member
From: South Austin
Registered: 2008-11-21
Posts: 439

Re: Red alert on the Drag

damicoaustin wrote:

Mike, you're exaggerating the potential conflict. Didn't you see that one of the six transit peds in the foreground actually looked behind them into the cycletrack? (I couldn't tell with the ones farther back.)

Actually, thanks for being persistent on this. Those videos do illustrate the problem. I wonder if COA or Cap Metro is out with a video camera, or at least observing? I'd like to see some footage of a bike actually entering as the peds are exiting.


I agree, also. Thanks, Mike, for bull dogging on this one. Maybe the problem will be addressed sooner rather than later.

I am confident that the cycle track, metro stop, and the way the street and pedestrian areas on the drag occur now, will continue to change and revamp, as a "great street" plan should be implemented there.

Pointing out that the logical next step is much higher visibility marking of the cycle track, GreenLanes that are actually green in intersections or areas of transition. And was also trying to come up with community generated outside the box solutions/ideas. Needs to happen here and other places in the city, particularly thinking of intersections at the zilker cycle track.

Also, there are many issues of concern for cyclists around our town. What about pedestrians and cyclists on S lamar for the past 6 months ???

And all of us cycling folks sure haven't spent that much time laying it out online.

Maybe we should, more often.....

Last edited by AusTexMurf (2013-08-28 08:54:55)

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#65 2013-08-28 13:53:26

m1ek
Member
Registered: 2008-06-02
Posts: 153

Re: Red alert on the Drag

Rob, the 6 peds I saw who didn't look are not in the video (I wasn't recording; I was driving an hour earlier - around 7:45 AM - at the same spot and made my report on twitter at the next traffic light at the time; the recordings were made by Jace Deloney at 8:45 who was standing on the sidewalk at the time - the two things are coincidental).

Murf, there is no way to incrementally improve this. Peds are going to do what peds do - they're going to cross without looking, because a separated cycletrack is a sidewalk for all intents and purposes. All the bullshit marketing in the world isn't going to change the fact that cyclists who want to travel at greater than sidewalk speed now cannot use Guadalupe. This is not, as Bike Austin tries to claim, a network for a larger number of users - this is now a network of sidewalk-users.

And these videos weren't even taken after class was in session (that started today).

As for just using the traffic lane, what do you expect the reaction of the typical motorist to be - as they see the large, expensive-looking facility that they think they paid for, right over there, being unused by you, while you're slowing them down in the traffic lane?

I hate to be that guy, but do you guys know how many times I've heard variants of this from y'all in the past, regarding things like Shoal Creek or the Red Line?

At some point, shouldn't you be like "this guy seems to be right a lot; maybe we should listen ahead of time instead of after the fact"?

Last edited by m1ek (2013-08-28 13:55:48)

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#66 2013-08-28 16:37:53

AusTexMurf
Member
From: South Austin
Registered: 2008-11-21
Posts: 439

Re: Red alert on the Drag

m1ek wrote:

Murf, there is no way to incrementally improve this. Peds are going to do what peds do - they're going to cross without looking, because a separated cycletrack is a sidewalk for all intents and purposes. All the bullshit marketing in the world isn't going to change the fact that cyclists who want to travel at greater than sidewalk speed now cannot use Guadalupe. This is not, as Bike Austin tries to claim, a network for a larger number of users - this is now a network of sidewalk-users.

Rather fatalistic. The bones of the thing look to be well in place.
My point is where is the facility going from this point into the future ?

A link to the design plans was provided in Augenwinkle's post. Doesn't say exactly what it finally looks like on the ground.Seems like the facility is still in interim stage, here. Yield to Pedestrian signs and possibly green paint/arrows/cross traffic/cross walk markings to go down ???
What is the city's timeline, if any, for additional marking/signage to alert pedestrians to cycle track?
I do understand more changes coming, but, how soon, exactly ? Seems to be very germane to this thread....

GreenLane.org and project/funds may well be a part of this, not at all sure.
Or if the city can access the funds for continuing improvement to the 'protected cycle track'.

I was predicting that the obvious, least expensive partial solution could be the use of the green paint and arrows in all intersections, maybe starting with the pedestrian zone conflicts at the metro express stop shown and subject of this thread. As much green paint arrows/wordage/tools on the ground + signage as possible, as quickly as possible.

Other ideas:
Flashing Lights and pedestrian crosswalks through green lane w/ green paint ?
And post signs for the pedestrians:
Caution: Cycle Track Crossing !

Pedestrian cross signals/buttons/crosswalks for them to use when crossing said cycle track ?
If so, shouldn't CapMetro help with the cost on this ?

Art in Public Spaces....permanent program. Think Phoenix House mosaic at s congress and live oak. Or others. Maybe two installs.
Mosaic for auto lanes around 27th St to let them know they are entering 'the Drag zone' ???

Collaborate w/ Art in Public Space to create a light/sound installation getting pedestrians attention/alerting them to cycle track and inviting them to bicycle austin ? Within the constraints of the space available, so vertical might be possible ? Solar powered light and sound art ?

In other words, what can be done, a.s.a.p. to make the facility better, safer, more efficient, and maybe even be a bit original ?
What positive impact can the community have on this facility and other similar projects in the future ?
Get some more positive ideas out here and let's get them to BAC and COA staff !!!
Why not ?

m1ek wrote:

As for just using the traffic lane, what do you expect the reaction of the typical motorist to be - as they see the large, expensive-looking facility that they think they paid for, right over there, being unused by you, while you're slowing them down in the traffic lane?

I have every right to operate in the auto traffic lane, if I choose. What is the cager going to do, murder me ? If one chooses flying that fast down guadalupe, taking the lane, instead of slowing in the cycle track there or using a parallel route to the immediate west, one might also pick......

I don't give a #@%$.
As I split the lane past fifty cars that are all inching forward catching the same red light three or four times on the way in to downtown, I breeze to the front where I squeeze through traffic at the jammed-up, overloaded intersection, then run the red light and dissappear over the horizon, i will be sure to wonder..."Are THEY all crazy??!! Or just boring and dumb ?".

Or,

Dance and merge at speed into traffic lanes when clear to do so, if metro rapid is stopping or recently unloaded, using one's own discretion and good judgement as to when best to move back into cycle track, again, at speed.

Get my point ?

Again, as a cyclist, we have many options in that part of town. Choices. Doesn't mean that this facility shouldn't be of high quality and work for everyone......

Last edited by AusTexMurf (2013-08-28 16:45:29)

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#67 2013-08-28 18:26:33

dougmc
Administrator
Registered: 2008-06-01
Posts: 591

Re: Red alert on the Drag

AusTexMurf wrote:

I have every right to operate in the auto traffic lane, if I choose.

Now, this is certainly a common response (and I especially like the "What is the cager going to do, murder me?"), but I'm not quite certain that the law completely supports this assertion.

There's this law --

551.103.  OPERATION ON ROADWAY.  (a)  Except as provided by Subsection (b), a person operating a bicycle on a
roadway who is moving slower than the other traffic on the roadway shall ride as near as practicable to the right curb or edge of the roadway, unless:
                (1)  the person is passing another vehicle moving in the same direction;   
                (2)  the person is preparing to turn left at an intersection or onto a private road or driveway;
                (3)  a condition on or of the roadway, including a fixed or moving object, parked or moving vehicle, pedestrian, animal, or surface hazard prevents the person from safely riding next to the right curb or edge of the roadway;  or
                (4)  the person is operating a bicycle in an outside lane that is:         
                        (A)  less than 14 feet in width and does not have a designated bicycle lane adjacent to that lane;  or
                        (B)  too narrow for a bicycle and a motor vehicle to safely travel side by side.
      (b)  A person operating a bicycle on a one-way roadway with two or more marked traffic lanes may ride as near as practicable to the left curb or edge of the roadway.

Now, if you're moving as fast as other traffic, you're golden.  And on Guadalupe there, it's generally possible to do so.

But if you're going slower, you're expected to be in the rightmost lane unless passing or turning left.  And if there's a bike lane ... usually it's the rightmost lane.

The exception in (4) applies to most roads in Texas, but it only covers the outside lane, which would usually be the bike lane if there is one.

Now, if the bike lane is unusable for some reason, you can argue that (3) means you're not required to use it, and on Guadalupe is seems highly likely that the bike lane will be full of pedestrians once this is all done, but I'm talking more in general -- not all bike lanes have that problem.

If a bike lane is perfectly usable (no obstructions, pedestrians, door zones (I haven't mentioned them in this post yet, but I'd argue that they're a hazard), etc.), and you're not going as fast as other traffic, and you're not turning left, and it's not a one way road ... 551.103 seems to require that you use the bike lane.

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#68 2013-09-18 10:01:11

m1ek
Member
Registered: 2008-06-02
Posts: 153

Re: Red alert on the Drag

This morning on twitter from a bicyclist who happened to be on a bus at the time:

"I'm pretty sure conflicts b/t pedestrians & bicycles will abound on the Guadalupe cycle track for a while"

followed by

"Just saw a bunch of students standing in the cycletrack waiting to cross the street while bicycles had a green light."

This matches what I've seen in the mornings (I drive down this part of Guadalupe around 7:45 most mornings this time of year). I have yet to see a crash but have seen cyclists have to come to a screeching halt a couple of times already.

Hey, it sure would be neat if people would eventually learn that maybe credibility should be based on how often you were right in the past, rather than how attractive it is to hear what the person is saying?

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#69 2013-10-17 09:43:44

m1ek
Member
Registered: 2008-06-02
Posts: 153

Re: Red alert on the Drag

I'm not sure I should even bother at this point, but what the hell, I'm having a bad morning and need a break.

Drove down SB Guadalupe this morning at about 7:45. The street furniture is now complete; cars are finally parked outside the bike facility.

At 24th/Guadalupe, a couple of pedestrians were overflowing from the island into the bike lane, requiring a SB cyclist to come to a stop and ask them to move.

At the bus stop following that, two pedestrians were walking north in the bike lane. The cyclist had given up by that point and dismounted.

At the West Mall crossing, about a dozen pedestrians were standing in the bike facility (overflowing from the large island) waiting to cross.

At the other bus stop (down near 21st), another pair of pedestrians were walking north in the bike lane.

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#70 2013-10-19 09:18:22

MichaelBluejay
Webmaster
From: Austin, TX
Registered: 2008-05-26
Posts: 1,338
Website

Re: Red alert on the Drag

Here's KVUE's article:  http://www.kvue.com/news/editors-pick/A … picks=true

They missed the story.

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#71 2013-10-24 12:53:28

mlisle
Member
Registered: 2008-09-03
Posts: 3

Re: Red alert on the Drag

Here's what I saw today on the Drag... Not only was she in the bike lane, but she was looking down at her phone for a few moments.

https://twitter.com/mlisle/status/393426151915270145

Similar things happen in the cycletrack on Berkman near HEB -- they're primarily being used as sidewalks and I've stopped using them... Though in those pedestrians' defense, there is a lot of construction on Berkman.

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#72 2013-10-24 22:00:37

AusTexMurf
Member
From: South Austin
Registered: 2008-11-21
Posts: 439

Re: Red alert on the Drag

Although I do not think that the cycling/pedestrian facilities on the Drag are perfect......
I am heartened by the fact that they exist, for newer cyclists to pootle and yield through the pedestrian soup, similar to europe (germany)...
And that the old school transportation cyclists out there will continue to take the lane, where we were before facilities.
Again, choices...
I want efficient cycling facilities and freedom to play in traffic.
My first choice, again, is to peacefully pass through interconnected quiet neighborhood/older streets, paralleling major motorist arterials.......
Glad we have Guadalupe, Rio Grande, Nueces, in this area.
Or Shoal Creek MUP, separate from cars.


And the Metro Rapid is also a pain for cyclists on S Congress. Little different furniture on the street, there, compared to Drag.

"As far right as safety permits" is often the far left lane on S Congress, too.
Or should we use the term "practicable" ?
Particularly if the bike lane is full of pedestrians and a bus is occupying the right hand lane.
Look for me in the left lane when running down congress with the metro rapid.
Seems safe enough to me.
I have room to maneuver in the whole lane, back in to the right lane, split them, or into the center turning lane as/if needed.
Just explaining what works for me....

If you are more comfortable using the cycling facilities on the ground around the drag, go for it. Just slow down, pay attention, yield to the peds, and let yourself be seen and heard as you move through. Perhaps pedestrians will also get better 'trained' and accustomed around the cycle track ? A little slower, more relaxed, shorter total distance type commute route.
Again, similar to germany, mixing it up with the pedestrians a bit. But also have the benefit of easy cycling access to cafes, sidewalks, pubs, bike racks, etc. Makes cyclists more a part of the local economy and scene w/o just passing through.

Again, choices.
Use them, or maybe loose them ?
Different strokes for different folks.

Last edited by AusTexMurf (2013-10-25 16:24:53)

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#73 2013-10-25 16:13:55

m1ek
Member
Registered: 2008-06-02
Posts: 153

Re: Red alert on the Drag

The claim that cyclists interested in actually getting somewhere with some speed can just take the lane as before is naive. Just as I was honked at frequently for taking the lane on SCB after the bike lane was turned into that shared monstrosity, so will people be honked at (or worse) on Guadalupe for taking the lane. The (or worse) is because the investment of public dollars into a cycling facility is far more obvious here than there; and motorists' ire will be proportionally worse.

I fully expect eventual trouble with the police telling cyclists they MUST use the cycletrack - it's as far right as practicable, after all.

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#74 2013-10-25 23:34:10

dougmc
Administrator
Registered: 2008-06-01
Posts: 591

Re: Red alert on the Drag

m1ek wrote:

I fully expect eventual trouble with the police telling cyclists they MUST use the cycletrack - it's as far right as practicable, after all.

But the law doesn't require that when the cyclist is going as fast as the prevailing traffic ... and traffic there doesn't go particularly fast, and it's even slightly downhill, helping the cyclists who wants to go fast to go a bit faster than normal.

If a cop did give a ticket for that (which seems unlikely, but it's certainly not impossible), the cyclist would probably have a pretty strong defense on several fronts.  But yeah, a cop might tell somebody to get on the track without a ticket -- that's more likely.

I watched the area for a few minutes late this afternoon.  Saw one pedestrian standing in the middle of the track for a few minutes right at the crosswalk at the co-op.  Several cyclists just rode around her without even slowing down (and some were going pretty fast -- 20+ mph.)  Fortunately, there's generally enough room to go around there, though I personally would have slowed down.  Beyond that, a few pedestrians walked in the path, but were only there for a few seconds.

I haven't seen it at 8am, but so far at the times I have seen it -- it's not been perfect, but acceptable -- and the previous setup wasn't perfect either and in fact it really sucked when you got behind a bus that parked in the bike lane.

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#75 2013-10-28 09:39:24

m1ek
Member
Registered: 2008-06-02
Posts: 153

Re: Red alert on the Drag

You really need to see it at 8 AM. That's when the massive pedestrian movement from west to east happens; and it's that movement that's most of the problem. (People exiting parked cars and transit vehicles are a problem all day but not likely to lead to people just hanging out and blocking the lane).

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