Homicidal/idiot driver vs. cyclist (silver Honda #843 YTZ, 7/29/14)

MichaelBluejay · 2014-07-29 23:26:23

My wife and I were walking east on Dean Keaton (on the north sidewalk) tonight around 10:30pm when a cyclist passed us, going west, in the bike lane, and I remarked, "He's really well-lit," because he had an exceptionally bright headlight. Seconds later, behind us, a silver Honda attempting to make a left from Dancy onto Dean Keaton suddenly braked hard to avoid hitting that same cyclist. The driver either didn't stop at the Stop sign, or didn't look before trying to pull onto the main road.

But what happened next is why it's interesting, and why I'm posting. Rather than feeling any contrition, the (male, 40's) driver LAID on his horn to register his dissatisfaction. The cyclist stopped, and yelled something like, "Watch where you're going" The driver shot back something like, "Come back here and I'll kick your ass! You were going the wrong way!" I asked him, "How do you figure?" He gestured a westward direction of travel in the west-bound lane and said, "He was going that way!" I said, "Yeah, that's the direction of traffic." The driver snapped back, "No it's not." I tried to clarify, "This is the United States, we ride on the right here," but he was speeding off as my wife was jotting down his license plate number.

Silver Honda 4-door hatchback, probably a Fit, #843 YTZ.

You would *never* see this kind of thing in Japan. My wife certainly didn't in 37 years there. When a driver hit her ex's car, that driver later came to their apartment to apologize again. Also I saw the aftermath of a cyclist/car collision in an alley there, and it appeared that the cyclist had run into the car. The cyclist got up, dusted himself off, and then *bowed* to the driver. People just take responsibility for their mistakes there, and they apologize for them. Here, people not only accept no blame, they blame others for their own bad behavior. Maybe not every time, but way more than rarely.

My wife had recently considered starting to cycle again, but this has probably set her back another six months, and I can't blame her. It's because of drivers like this one that the roads are dangerous. It doesn't matter how many bike lanes they build, so long as idiots like the one I saw tonight are roaming the roads, the streets will never be safe for us.

rich00 · 2014-07-30 16:12:49

I was almost hit by car doing a U turn on Dean Keeton there. I was going EB and they cut right in front of me, only to stop at the last moment for me to pass by. I gave her a thumbs up and she honked at me. So I stopped and asked what's up. She continued to bitch at me for doing something wrong and how she hates all bikers. As if I didn't have the right of way. Clueless motorists. I gave a thumbs up because she managed to not hit me.

tstarry · 2014-07-30 17:21:08

Not only is there a huge cultural difference in Japan, there are huge differences in liability law.

On my first deployment to Iwakuni we had two Marines, drunk and fighting off base. The fight migrated onto the tracks of the local commuter train just in time for the first southbound of the morning. The train had to stop so that investigators could work two fatalities. After adjudication, the U.S. government was found liable not only for the damage to the train but was required to compensate all the commuters for being late or missing work.

We could learn much from them.

MichaelBluejay · 2014-07-30 17:40:52

rich00, ouch! The first time you mentioned the thumbs up, I guessed it was because she managed to not actually hit you.

tstarry, thanks for sharing that interesting story. According to my wife, the train liability thing is to discourage suicides. Suicide by jumping in front of the train is pretty common, so (she says) would-be jumpers know that their families will be on the hook for damages / time if the person does jump in front of the train. Given the large sense of responsibility to others in Japan, she thinks this does discourage many would-be jumpers, and I think she's right. (Though of course some people jump anyway.)

However, she says that the liability is stricter *here*: Japanese are cautioned that if they go to America and get in a car collision, not to apologize, because the apology is a tacit admission of guilt and then they could get sued (or be more likely to lose a suit that was coming anyway). This is counter to the Japanese habit of apologizing profusely, so this startles them, and it's a hard habit to break.

Before she told me this, I was ruminating about the bit in the newsletter I got from my insurance agent, which said something like, "If you're in a collision, don't admit guilt, even if you were at fault." And I'm like, WTF?! Yeah, maybe the consequences will be worse if you admit fault, but that's to be expected because YOU WERE AT FAULT! When our children are bad, isn't the thing we want most that they to *admit* their mistake and *take responsibility* for it? Apparently that applies only to children, not adults.

If I ever cause a collision, I plan to own up to it.

daveintex13 · 2014-07-31 09:20:10

Hey Michael:

Thanks for saying something to the driver. It's probably too late to get the cyclist to file a police report, but maybe you could do so? That's my neighborhood and we need all the help we can get to get attention for cyclist safety. Police reports help us build evidence that safety is a continuing concern. Also, if the driver of that vehicle is observed later driving recklessly or making other threats, it would be nice to have a record of his misbehavior to document a pattern. Or there could be a warrant out for him.

Everybody: ALWAYS file a police report. People in the neighborhoods we pedal through need that evidence to support neighborhood plans and Safe Routes to School and other programs that ask for funds for bike/ped improvements. If there's no evidence of a problem, it's easier to ignore the requests.

btw, the owner of that car is a woman.

~dave.westenbarger~

bizikletari · 2014-08-01 19:22:15

My personal experience, unfortunately, is that APD does not appear when you call to report dangerous behaviour towards cyclists. Period.
I've called three times in the last 12 months; in all three instances I've left after half an hour of waiting in vain. Watch on wrist.
I might be irresponsible, but half an hour waiting under the Texas sun is my limit and I rather go places.

MichaelBluejay · 2014-08-01 23:19:56

@daveintex13: The cyclist took off when the driver threatened to beat him up. I considered calling the police, but decided against it because of time pressures as well as the disappointment I'd feel if I got little to no response from the police, which seemed more than likely. As for the idea that the police somehow put a black mark next to someone's name when a report is made and save that info for future use, I seriously doubt they actually do that. I'm considering that one an urban myth until someone can provide positive confirmation.

I agree that it couldn't have hurt to file the report, and given more time, I would have made a go at filing the report anyway. But really, whether incidents like this one are called in or not, the real problem is that a non-trivial percentage of drivers out there take Absolutely. No. Responsibility. for their actions, and even blame others for their own transgressions. Look at rich00's case -- why was I not surprised when I read it? No number of bike lanes are going to change drivers' hearts and minds, but nothing less than that will make the streets safe. We need a cultural revolution, which is no small order. That's why advocacy is hard. It's why I mostly gave up. I applaud those in the trenches making the effort. But how much progress are they making? Witnessing what I saw the other night, we've got a long way to go. "Austin = Bike-Friendly city" my ass.

bizikletari · 2014-08-02 14:02:55

MichaelBluejay wrote:

As for the idea that the police somehow put a black mark next to someone's name when a report is made and save that info for future use, I seriously doubt they actually do that. I'm considering that one an urban myth until someone can provide positive confirmation.

And as a myth has been debunked by APD's Acevedo himself.
A few years ago, I asked him in a forum why APD would not keep records of reports to see repeated offernders, trends and whynot. His answer was a)budget constrains and b)they couldn't do a thing if an officer had not witnessed the infraction!
I am still mesmerized by his logic.

MichaelBluejay wrote:

"Austin = Bike-Friendly city" my ass.

Some well intentioned people argue that renting bikes is solid evidence that it IS a bike-friendly city.
Oh well.

MichaelBluejay · 2014-08-02 16:55:54

Renting bikes? I don't follow.

bizikletari · 2014-08-02 18:34:24

Bike sharing (for a fee) programs are basically bike rental programs.
It has been argued B-cycle is a good example we have a bike friendly city. etc.

MichaelBluejay · 2014-08-02 20:41:18

Oh, I see. My response to that assertion would be, "Well, that's setting the bar low."

damicoaustin · 2014-08-03 11:36:15

I've posted about it several times on this forum---and it's been talked about for years. Colorado keeps an aggressive driver database. Austin could certainly do it, but no one in power is pushing it. This would be a simple and great organizing campaign for Bike Austin. Then again, I'm not doing anything about it but bitching on why no one else is doing anything.

damicoaustin · 2014-08-03 11:40:20

Ahaa...catching up on email today I found this: http://www.austintexas.gov/department/a … -symposium
Great opportunity to bring up the aggressive driver database.

Jack · 2014-08-07 10:35:49

It's human nature (though it seems there's a wide range of just how much self-justification people are willing to express). This a.m. when I stopped for a red, northbound on Congress Ave., two cyclists coming up from behind me decided they'd turn left via the cross walk to get onto the sidewalk on the south side of the cross street. Right across the path of someone turning right, after she had properly stopped and signaled and then moved on, to go south on Congress. The two cyclists yelled as if the motorist was somehow in the wrong. Homicidal? No. Suicidal? No. Horrible judgment and situational awareness? Yes, on the part of the cyclists. The driver being surprised and alarmed at riders actually doing something foolish was only to be expected.

savanni · 2014-08-07 11:48:30

Jack wrote:

It's human nature (though it seems there's a wide range of just how much self-justification people are willing to express). This a.m. when I stopped for a red, northbound on Congress Ave., two cyclists coming up from behind me decided they'd turn left via the cross walk to get onto the sidewalk on the south side of the cross street. Right across the path of someone turning right, after she had properly stopped and signaled and then moved on, to go south on Congress. The two cyclists yelled as if the motorist was somehow in the wrong. Homicidal? No. Suicidal? No. Horrible judgment and situational awareness? Yes, on the part of the cyclists. The driver being surprised and alarmed at riders actually doing something foolish was only to be expected.

I hate (another part of human nature) how when I'm out dealing with people in the normal world... these are the only cyclists they remember. They never remember cyclists like me who keep strictly to the law and to safety and who avoid some of the more dangerous stuff. I try to counter their stories, but simply can't, nor can I chop out of my life everyone who talks this way.

Jack · 2014-08-07 16:48:35

Jack wrote:

It's human nature . . . .

Of course, I don't mean to say that the behavior of the two careless (carefree?) cyclists was as bad as MBJ's driver's. Only that they shared the "blame the one doing what is right, instead of myself" attitude.

Last edited by Jack (2014-08-07 16:48:55)

Bicycle Austin forum

#1 2014-07-29 23:26:23

Homicidal/idiot driver vs. cyclist (silver Honda #843 YTZ, 7/29/14)

#2 2014-07-30 16:12:49

Re: Homicidal/idiot driver vs. cyclist (silver Honda #843 YTZ, 7/29/14)

#3 2014-07-30 17:21:08

Re: Homicidal/idiot driver vs. cyclist (silver Honda #843 YTZ, 7/29/14)

#4 2014-07-30 17:40:52

Re: Homicidal/idiot driver vs. cyclist (silver Honda #843 YTZ, 7/29/14)

#5 2014-07-31 09:20:10

Re: Homicidal/idiot driver vs. cyclist (silver Honda #843 YTZ, 7/29/14)

#6 2014-08-01 19:22:15

Re: Homicidal/idiot driver vs. cyclist (silver Honda #843 YTZ, 7/29/14)

#7 2014-08-01 23:19:56

Re: Homicidal/idiot driver vs. cyclist (silver Honda #843 YTZ, 7/29/14)

#8 2014-08-02 14:02:55

Re: Homicidal/idiot driver vs. cyclist (silver Honda #843 YTZ, 7/29/14)

#9 2014-08-02 16:55:54

Re: Homicidal/idiot driver vs. cyclist (silver Honda #843 YTZ, 7/29/14)

#10 2014-08-02 18:34:24

Re: Homicidal/idiot driver vs. cyclist (silver Honda #843 YTZ, 7/29/14)

#11 2014-08-02 20:41:18

Re: Homicidal/idiot driver vs. cyclist (silver Honda #843 YTZ, 7/29/14)

#12 2014-08-03 11:36:15

Re: Homicidal/idiot driver vs. cyclist (silver Honda #843 YTZ, 7/29/14)

#13 2014-08-03 11:40:20

Re: Homicidal/idiot driver vs. cyclist (silver Honda #843 YTZ, 7/29/14)

#14 2014-08-07 10:35:49

Re: Homicidal/idiot driver vs. cyclist (silver Honda #843 YTZ, 7/29/14)

#15 2014-08-07 11:48:30

Re: Homicidal/idiot driver vs. cyclist (silver Honda #843 YTZ, 7/29/14)

#16 2014-08-07 16:48:35

Re: Homicidal/idiot driver vs. cyclist (silver Honda #843 YTZ, 7/29/14)

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