[BIKE: Relevant to recent discussions]

[Mike Dahmus]

Charles McNeil wrote:

>>There is no doubt in my mind that every cyclist who ran a red light or a
>>stop sign and got squashed for the privilege did so successfully many
>>times before Darwin finally caught up with him. Until that point, they
>>were, if so inclined, likely claiming that the worst-case scenario would
>>never happen to them, because they always 'safely' ran their red lights
>>and stop signs.
>>    
>>
>
>I understand what you are saying.
>
>You assert that one must come to a complete stop, with your feet down, at
>every intersection with a stop sign or red light, until such time as one
>feels safe to pass through a two-way stop, one has the right-of-way at a
>four-way stop, or the light turns green.
>  
>
No. You don't understand what I am saying.

I am saying that I expect a reasonable similarity in "obeying the law" 
between cyclists and drivers.

Since most drivers come to a very slow "rolling stop", I find it 
reasonable for cyclists to do so as well. A complete foot-down stop is 
not required if you will then have the right-of-way.

However, that's not what we've been talking about here; we've been 
talking about barely slowing down.

(In the case of a red light, I do in fact expect a foot-down stop until 
the light turns green, unless it is clear the light will not turn green 
due to it being on a trigger-only cycle that does not sense bicycles. 
However, this does not lessen the obligation to come to a stop first; 
demonstrating obedience to the most important traffic signal there is to 
anybody who might be nearby watching. To say nothing of the fact that 
anybody who blows such a red light without looking incredibly carefully, 
necessitating the stop, is an idiot).

Likewise, since many drivers "run the orange", I'm not getting upset at 
the bicyclists who do the same.

It's a matter of fact, however, that the lawbreaking of cyclists is of a 
different caliber than that of motorists. Despite what you've heard 
here, motorists simply DON'T run red lights in the middle of the cycle. 
They DON'T ride down the wrong side of the street. Etc.

- MD