BIKE: Personal Rapid Transit

[chris]

Below are some comments from a PRT supporter's perspective on some of
today's PRT related comments.   While I don't expect them to sway many of
the dedicated mass-transit supporters, I hope the list finds them useful.

Chris J. Burr, Co-Founder
Austin Citizens for Personal Rapid Transit
www.acprt.org - chris 

> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 16:09:29 -0500
> From: Mike Dahmus <mdahmus>
> Subject: Re: BIKE: Re:  Monorail, Transit, rails-with-trails
> To: forum-bicycleaustin.info
> Message-ID: <40FD8A09.9010705>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Nick Dalton wrote:
> 
> > I agree with Eric on this one.  Personal Rapid Transit is the only thing
> > with even faintly offers a service which can break even from the 
> > ticket cost. The more miles of cheap transit we can build the more 
> > space on the ground for everyone else.
> 
> PRT is kook transit - pushed by 2 groups:
> 
> 1. well-meaning eggheads who watched too many episodes of The Jetsons
> 2. road guys who know that they can get enough of #1 to kill the 
> momentum for more realistic alternatives.
> 
> The only real PRT system in the world is a demonstration project at West 
> Virginia University, and it's just plain awful. If you think what we 
> have now wastes a lot of money, you ain't seen nothing yet.
> 
> http://www.roadkillbill.com/PRTisaJoke.html makes my eyes bleed, but is 
> a good collection of stuff showing where most of PRT's backing comes 
> from. This guy makes the unfortunate (in my opinion) judgement that PRT 
> and monorail are pretty much the same thing; I disagree - I think PRT 
> makes monorail look quite respectable.
> 
> - MD
> 
> 

Well, I guess I am just an egghead. But IIRC, the Jetson's car flew and
folded itself up into a briefcase - neither of which PRT supports claim.  As
for the road-guy conspiracy theory, I have yet to see an example of a PRT
proposal derailing, delaying, or causing a traditional transit proposal to
be cancelled.  Most often is seems to be a question of cost/benefits and
where to get the money that does that trick.  Both of these items are things
that PRT is attempting to address by providing an auto-competitive service
level with a lower-cost system.  We haven't gotten it perfected or installed
yet, but slow progress is being made.

Mr. Avidor's 'PRT is a Joke' website is often read by myself and other PRT
Kooks, er 'supporters' - mostly as entertainment, but also as a example of
the poor arguments we face.

A prime example is his insistence that PRT will allow terrorist to place a
bomb on board and happily send it to its destination.  This despite
proponents having pointed out the simple method of having the rider press a
'Start' button in the vehicle AFTER the door is closed to prevent such
automated mayhem.  The vast majority of his points are dealt with on the
various PRT sites FAQs and description pages.   Most of the rest are simply
silly.   ACPRT will be happy to respond to questions that remain.  You can
send email to info or use the Skeptics question page at
http://www.acprt.org/SkepticsQuestions.cfm - Please provide your email if
you would like a personal answer.

He does bring up the Cincinnati Loop Study and then fails to acknowledge any
of the problems with the study.  Here is a rebuttal from the Skyloop
supporters and Taxi 2000 for those that are interested in taking a fair look
at the topic.  Mr. Avidor certainly isn't.
http://www.skyloop.org/cals/rebuttal/001-SLC-T2C-Rebuttal-to-CALS-DFR2.pdf  

Morgantown is larger scale Group Rapid Transit system, built with late '60s
technology in a government funded demonstration project -  it doesn't
resemble any of the current PRT designs in scale, technology, or development
process.  Actually, the problems of Morgantown greatly influenced the Taxi
2000 design by demonstrating the weaknesses of the GRT service concept and
highlighting the need for a covered, protected guideway and the benefits of
electromagnetic induction motors rather than using wheel-based traction
systems for propulsion and braking.

Some comparison and info links:
http://www.electric-bikes.com/prt-morg.htm
http://faculty.washington.edu/jbs/itrans/morg.htm
www.cities21.org/morgantownWeb.doc



> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 16:20:27 -0500
> From: David Dobbs <ddobbs>
> Subject: Re: BIKE: Re:  Monorail, Transit, rails-with-trails
> To: forum
> Message-ID: <v04210102bd233a0b4b9f@[66.68.163.192]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> At 22:00 +0100 7/20/04, Nick Dalton wrote:
> >I agree with Eric on this one.  Personal Rapid Transit is the only thing
> >with even faintly offers a service which can break even from the
> >ticket cost. The more miles of cheap transit we can build the more
> >space on the ground for everyone else.
> 
> Unfortunately PRT doesn't exist except in the minds of its 
> supporters.  Please refer to http://www.lightrailnow.org for a 
> reality check and click the fourth article down on the opening page. 
> Thank you.
> 
> Dave Dobbs
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Texas Association for Public Transportation
> 9702 Swansons Ranch Road
> Austin, Texas 78748
> Ph 512.282.1149
> 
> Visit our website at  http://www.lightrailnow.org
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> 

And after you have done so, check out the rebuttals to LRN's wonderful
little document from the PRT community:  

>From Get There Fast .org in Seattle -
http://gettherefast.org/lightrailnow.html 
>From Dr. Anderson at Taxi 2000 -
http://www.skywebexpress.com/news/Response-to-LRT-Now.pdf
Mr. Bill Wilde, PRT Supporter (that's 'Kook' to Mike)
http://dev.c-3.com/acprt/LRN_BillWilde.cfm
Mr. Steve Anderson, PRT Supporter
http://steveanderson.org/prt/LightRailNow.htm

I particularly like the first one since it tackles many (not all) of the
problems with the LRN paper in a point-by-point format.  The remarks by Dr.
Anderson regarding LRN mangling of headway calculations is a good read as
well.




Chris J. Burr, Co-Founder
Austin Citizens for Personal Rapid Transit
www.acprt.org - chris