[BIKE: Relevant to recent discussions]

[Jeff Thorne]

Let me second that emotion and add an observation of my own:

While this 'debate' (to abuse a term) was going on, I, while cycling through a
green light at nearly 25 mph, nearly t-boned another cyclist who was running
the red to turn left across my path.

To me, this illustrated two points about predictability while riding through
'controlled stops,' those being:

1) cyclists are not as noticeable in an intersection as your common Corvair,
Corvette, or F-250; he must not have seen me and I nearly didn't see him, so
keep in mind that the car (or cyclist) that will hit you is likely the one not
looking for you to be in the intersection to begin with; and

B) it's the vehicle you don't see coming that you should be worried about when
you think it's safe to roll on out--can the vehicle you didn't see notice you
and stop in time?  Would giving yourself more time to look for that stealthy
grey Acura make it safer to proceed?  If that unnoticed driver sees you at the
intersection, is she more likely to think you will be stopping or that you
will roll on through as if she wasn't there?

The phrase "Rushing Roulette" came to mind just now, not that I'd get on
anybody's back about how one uses one's own sound judgment at a stop sign.

--"Stops Mostly" Thorne

Fred Meredith <bikin-fred> wrote:

The following text was part of a post on another listserv a national 
cycling advocacy list. I thought the author was very much on target 
and the topic very relevant to last weeks discussion on traffic 
lights/stop signs and whether cyclists needed to obey the law.

>
>My personal problems with the behaviors enumerated previously, and
>responded to by Stanley below, are as follows:
>
>Weaving/swerving - I have been crashed into by cyclists who are
>unpredictable.  I *thought* I could predict the next graceful curve enough
>to get by, but I was mistaken.
>
>Unpredictable rideouts - Folks leaving driveways or side streets without
>looking, slowing, or being otherwise predictable are a noticeable problem.
>
>Light/sign running - I have had very near misses, while driving and
>cycling, with cyclists who ignored traffic signals/controls while traveling
>at approx. 10-15MPH.
>
>Wrong way riding - I often have unpredictable encounters, and have had a
>couple crashes, with cyclists riding facing traffic.  I have also ended up
>with a cyclist running into the right  front corner of my car as I prepared
>for a right turn out of a side street.
>
>Unlit at night - I have had MANY close calls with unlit riders, who have
>often been exhibiting other unpredictable behaviors at the same time.
>
>I ride in the metro Fort Lauderdale area, night and day, rain and shine,
>and by far my worst set of problems comes from fellow cyclists who treat
>traffic rules "situationally".  If you're looking for a justification for
>following traffic rules, think of the obligation one has to society to not
>endanger others or to not, by endangering oneself, become a burden on
>society in general.
>
>Please don't try to defend behavior that is dangerous.
>
>Thanks,
>Whitney
>
>
>At 03:23 AM 4/29/04 -0700, Stanley wrote:
>  >SB:
>>The answer is that they aren't as concerned as you are
>>with demonstrating approved cycling positioning,
>>posture, or technique. Other cyclists may not be as
>>concerned as you in being in the "correct" gear, or as
>>concerned with taking the most efficient line through
>>a curve or from point A to point B, or complying with
>>the letter of unenforced traffic regulations (that
>>often are situationally irrelevant). In some cases
>>they may not regard safety in as high as regard as
>>you; some people do not make avoidance of every risk,
>>no matter what the significance, their paramount goal
>>in life. They may not define "not look where they are
>>going" the same way you do.
>>
>>The "answer" for adults and probably most older
>>children's "problem" is that they may not have a
>>problem.
>>
>>Your problem is failure to recognize that cyclists may
>>know the "correct" techniques, but choose not to use
>>them for reasons that don't jibe with your own cycling
>>values.
>>
>  >Stanley


Last names and email addresses removed since I did not ask their 
permission to reprint some of their words.

Fred (a believer in predictability, especially when I am the most 
vulnerable participant) Meredith
-- 
When in doubt ... ride your bike (or at least write about it).

Fred Meredith
P.O. Box 100 (12702 Lowden Ln for UPS/FedEx)
Manchaca, TX 78652
512/282-1987 (office/home)
512/282-7413 (fax)
512/636-7480 (wireless)
More than you want to know at: http://2merediths.com
_______________________________________________
Get on or off this list here: 
http://lists.bicycleaustin.info/listinfo.cgi/forum-bicycleaustin.info